Last year we met Brie Ripley, a young newly married Seattlite who had moved to Rome for a job without ever having visited the city, or even the country.
On Episode 562: Moving to Rome—Sight Unseen, Part 2 we catch up with Brie and her husband 10 months later to see how they are adjusting to life in Rome and life as expats, now that the expat honeymoon phase is over and they are faced with the real challenges of living abroad.
We talk about their struggles to learn the language, their attempts to create a community, and how hard it can be to live in a foreign country when you don’t particularly embrace trying new things.
They both weigh in on what it feels like to be the so-called “trailing spouse” vs. the (for lack of a better term) “leading spouse,” how living in a foreign country has changed how they interact as a couple, and whether either of them would have moved to Rome if they had been single at the time (spoiler: their answers are very different from each other!)
Find Part One of this interview here: Episode 527: Moving to Rome—Sight Unseen (with Brie Ripley).
You can listen right here, or find the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, and elsewhere.
Related Episodes:
Episode 566: How to Move to Italy (with Thea Duncan)
Episode 527: Moving to Rome—Sight Unseen (with Brie Ripley)
Episode 250: SPOUSE (with Beth M. Howard)
Bittersweet Moment #168: Moving to Rome Because of the Pandemic (with Kate Wheeler)
Bittersweet Moment #79: Moving Abroad during a Pandemic (with Gabriela Proietti)
Five key takeaways from the episode:
- Brie moved to Rome sight unseen for a job opportunity, and her husband Ryan joined her later. They’ve been living there for about 10 months now.
- The couple has faced challenges adjusting to life in Rome, including language barriers, cultural differences, and the pressure of Brie’s job being tied to their ability to stay in Italy.
- Despite difficulties, they’ve learned to appreciate the beauty and lifestyle of Rome, incorporating more gratitude into their daily lives.
- Ryan, as the “trailing spouse,” has had to adapt to a less independent lifestyle and find his place in a new environment without the structure of a local job.
- The experience has changed their perspectives on decision-making, risk-taking, and the importance of stability and groundedness when making major life changes.
Full Episode Transcript:
Katy
Hello, this is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall, still in Rome, although Tiffany is away today. And I’m joined by two very special people. One who you will recognize from an earlier episode. Episode number 527. I think I’ll let you guys introduce yourselves. Who are you?
Brie Ripley
I am Brie. Like the cheese. Ripley, like, Believe It or Not, I moved to Rome sight unseen.
Katy
Episode 527, Bree moved to Rome sight unseen. Okay, and who are you?
Ryan Sparks
I’m Bree’s other half. This is Ryan Sparks. I don’t have nearly as quippy of an introduction, but I’m very excited to be here.
Katy
So if you haven’t listened to Brie’s original episode, it is worth hearing before this one. Not that this one won’t stand alone, but we interviewed Bree back when she first arrived in Rome. She’s from Seattle, moved to Rome for a job without ever having been here before. And where we left it last time, Ryan, you had yet to arrive when I was interviewing her. Although the episode did end with your arrival. So maybe I’ll start with you, actually, since we haven’t heard from you before, do you want to take us back to your impressions of that first arrival, what it felt like to finally get here?
Ryan Sparks
Oh, the first. Well, the first arrival. I think you took the audio clip, right? I’m not sure if you can hear the cats meowing in the background.
Katy
Oh, you could hear the cats meowing? Yes.
Ryan Sparks
Okay, then. Yeah. That’s an accurate depiction of what my arrival was mostly like, because traveling with two cats for 16 hours with a layover in Frankfurt. Do it maybe a few times in your life. Definitely not more than twice. It went fine, but I was pretty haggard when I was rolling in. But I think the first things that I remember about walking into the apartment, seeing you again, Bree, for the first time in six weeks was the smell is very pleasant. Rome isn’t always a pleasant smelling place, but at that time, this is like late March, and it was like a nice temperature, a really, like, crisp air and smell in the air. And I was like, oh, I get to. I just get to be here now. Okay. Coming from Seattle, it has its own version of, like, a beautiful, fresh kind of breeze. But there was. On that day, there was. It was really, really nice smelling in Rome is what I remember when I first walked in.
Katy
We had talked to Brie, how she was feeling during that first kind of often awkward month. When I think back to when I moved to Rome, I think about myself feeling, like, very awkward and out of place, but I don’t want to put words in your mouth. How did you feel in that first month when you first get here?
Ryan Sparks
Oh, so awkward and out of place. Like I’m a creature of habit. I moved from the east coast to Seattle when I was younger, but then stayed in Seattle for 10 years. I like to stay put to know where I am, to know how to get places, to know the local shops to go to, and starting over. Not knowing the language when just getting an espresso feels daunting. The first couple of days, it felt very daunting and felt like kind of being an alien in a new land again. Even though a lot of things are made to be pretty easy. You toss a gyro on the counter and you get your espresso. It’s not complicated, but. But it felt very daunting at the time.
Katy
Well, Brie moved here. She got the job in Rome. So you decided to come along and you have a job working abroad. But because she comes with a purpose, like a specific purpose, you’re both here because she got a job. How did that make you feel?
Ryan Sparks
It was tricky. It was when we first heard about this job offer for Brie, it was exciting because we’d always talked about living somewhere else and abroad if we could. And then the moment happens where it’s like, oh, we can. We could right now. And that was intimidating because it’s not in my control where those things go, and it’s only partially in her control where those things go. It’s. Jobs don’t always work out. And to peg your life on One is a new thing for me. When I moved in the past, it wasn’t for a job. I would find the job when I get there. And then arriving, like you said, she’s the one with the office to go to, with the place to go. They all speak English at that office. She’s got a place and a purpose. And mine was pretty abstracted. Like I was very glad that I was able to keep working remotely for my job back in the States, time zones be damned. But it was, that’s. It’s alienating. It’s a strange place to find yourself working from an apartment mostly alone with people you know very well back in the States and then wondering how do I get into the community here and what does that even look like? Do I try to play soccer again? They’re going to be so much better than me. Like what do I. What’s a way that I can start engaging with people that doesn’t entail so much language and so much, much Italian? Because that’s going to take some time.
Katy
Because that’s the other thing that is similar to when Derek and I moved here was you didn’t necessarily know you were coming here. And if you live in Seattle, if you took a language at all growing up, it may be as Spanish. French could be an Asian language because that’s all way more practical. French isn’t practical, but all the rest of it’s way more practical in the city of Seattle. So why would you know? You don’t know Italian at all and then you come here.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah, and I did take some Spanish when I was growing up, so you get some of the roots. That actually does remind me of a good story where I went to an in person language learning class for about a week, only couldn’t do more of it because it was every day and very intensive and I thought I’d be able to pull it off. And then work made that not possible. But the point was that while I was doing that, it was just me and then probably 10 or 12 Chinese high schoolers all learning Italian. And for them they are starting from such a different place to learn Italian. And it was actually pretty humbling where I was like, I have so much of a head start towards this with the Spanish background and even just the English background, the same Alphabet, all of it. And they were so brave and cool watching them go through it. And we were kind of at the same level because I came in like a week through the course that I’d been at it for a week kind of at the same level. But just like, watching how, how hard they were trying, and I was like, I have no excuse. I should be able to do this. But it’s still, it’s. But with all that said, like, it’s still super challenging. I was describing earlier to Bria was like, I feel like we’re really good in retail settings, restaurants, getting by, but if we’re both working and speaking in English all day for work, you’re not going to really immerse in other types of language and more conversational stuff unless you take some very intensive lessons. It’s going to take some time.
Katy
Well, you’re nodding a lot. Do you have anything you want to add?
Brie Ripley
I’m still not good at speaking Italian. I guess that’s as much as I have to add. I mean, I do have the luxury of working for a global organization where English is the primary language. And it does make me feel like I’m missing out a lot. Like I’m not really adjusting into my, you know, community, my neighborhood. Most of the people in our neighborhood, we live in a very Roman neighborhood, only speak Italian. And so you go, ston cora imperando italiano. You say like, I am still learning Italian. And then you’re like, do you speak English? And they’re like, yeah, like just a little. And then they proceed to try to speak to you in English. And you’re like, I can’t, like, make this connection with you that I want to make. Like my butcher and the amazing woman who hems my pants. I want to have a relationship with them and they know me and we have that connection, but it’s very surface level. And so I kind of just feel like I’m missing out a lot on these deeper connections.
Katy
And yet you have managed to find a woman who can hem your pants, which some people, even that would be just like, well, you know, I just. I’ll have pants that drag on the ground. It’s fine.
Brie Ripley
As a 5 foot 3 person, all my pants need to be hemmed, basically. Unless they’re guppies, right? But yeah, and I did find her. And I mean, there’s six different sartorias in our neighborhood, which is very lucky, which is tailor shops. And they’re all great. They all have different services that they offer. Some are very good at doing dresses from scratch. Like, if you want a whole wardrobe from scratch, you have to hit up the lady right next to our apartment. But if you just want your pants hemmed for five euro a pop, you gotta go to my lady in San Giovanni.
Katy
So you’ve been here about 10 months. We just went out for lunch and you said you’ve been here about 10 months now. So, I mean, it is. Your Italian’s terrible. You know, my Italian is still terrible. And I’ve been coming here for 10 years. I mean, you are finding your way, though. Like, when you think back to, like, that early month, that first month that you were both here, your first month alone, his first month, as soon as he got here, how do you think that you’ve changed in that intervening nine months, so to speak?
Brie Ripley
I think that we stop and feel, like, very grateful and try to really incorporate more gratitude. Like, there are very hard days when nothing works and everything just feels like it’s, you know, oh, man, that is so Rome right now. Like, you’re at the train station and the train’s never going to come, and then you get an email. Because I work for an organization that sends out these mass emails because we’re mostly expats that are like, well, the trains have just stopped running. If you’ve been at the train station for two hours, they’re not going to come today. Or, you know, Metro strike tomorrow. And, you know. Or like, it takes way too long to drive home from wherever we’re coming from. And it just is impossible to get into Trastevere Old Town when you’re coming from, you know, any neighborhood outside. And it’s really hard on Metro or public transit. But we can stop and be like. But we get to go. Like, we get to be there and we get to look around and everywhere kind of looks like a painting, and it’s so extraordinary. And. And those moments where we just get to, like, pause and be like, the food tastes really good here. And I really enjoy just being and listening and having those moments of just pause and just feeling really grateful like that. I think we’re able to do that now. And in the beginning, it was like we had that honeymoon phase here. And then we got really frustrated at some point because we were like, how does any of this work? But now we’re really trying to incorporate more gratitude. And I feel like it’s really. It’s real, it’s resonant. Like, we get to be here right now.
Ryan Sparks
It’s. The whole experience is reminding me that, like I said earlier, I’m a creature of habit, right? Like, I don’t. Back in Seattle, I wasn’t someone who was signing up for new clubs and starting that new sport or learning that new language for fun, because I don’t like feeling like a beginner Is what it sounds like a thing that you should strive to say. Like, I love. I’m a lifelong learner. I’m not. I don’t like it and it’s uncomfortable. And so it’s been interesting going through this phase because I can see some like grace in there of like, if you are just uncomfortable for a while, if you can find enough safety and security such that that’s not threatening, it’s just annoying. If I’m just talk less in general. And my day to day word count is probably way down compared to living in Seattle. I think it’s. I think it’s probably a good thing for me. It almost reminds me like I love to hike and that’s very little speaking, very little conversing. I hike alone often because I really like the solitude. I’m learning how to do that, slowly learning how to do that in a. In a city and in a place surrounded by lots of people. And I wouldn’t say it feels super natural yet, but I can see it. And I don’t think I ever would have if Brie hadn’t found this job and if Rome didn’t sort of occur. And I would also say, like Brie said, on the challenging days, it’s not that hard of a place to be. It’s not Helsinki in the winter. This is like, the food’s good, it’s relatively affordable as far as cities go. It’s beautiful. The history’s. Even if you don’t care about history, still slaps you in the face and it’s incredible. Like, it’s not a hard place to be. Just like have a glass of wine and I don’t know, chill out. The day will be over soon. It might already be over. Like, that’s.
Brie Ripley
Find a balcony or a rooftop and just chill out. Yeah, that’s what we tell our. That’s what we do. We’re like, okay, we’re gonna have a spritz and we’re gonna figure this out.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah, I think we shouldn’t sit inside anymore. And then probably within 30 minutes it’ll be fine. Unless it’s August, in which case you.
Brie Ripley
Can’t go outside for a month and it’s not fine.
Ryan Sparks
And it actually is Helsinki in the winter, it’s just the opposite.
Katy
It’s. It’s the center of the sun, right?
Ryan Sparks
Yep. Yep. It’s like walking into a blast furnace. Have you ever wondered what it’s like to be a ceramic, like, come to Rome in August?
Katy
I’ve always wondered what it’s like to be a Ceramic.
Ryan Sparks
I have to say, who amongst us has not? Yeah, that’s.
Brie Ripley
Yeah.
Katy
I’m curious. Well, this is kind of an inside question for those of you who have never been to Seattle, which I know a lot of you listening have never been to Seattle, but, you know, you, you know its reputation. Rainy, overcast, very gray. Just insider question. How do you feel about living in a place where unlike looking out your window and having it be gray outside the majority of the time, how does it feel actually being somewhere where you look out the window and it’s actually sunny most of the time?
Ryan Sparks
It’s super nice. Like, I guess it reminds me of California and different parts of California in that way when it comes to the weather, but it’s nice. I think the thing in Seattle that I came to really like about the dreariness is when there’s the nice weather. When there’s the nice day or even just a dreary day where it’s not raining, there’s an energy because it’s like, I gotta use this time. I gotta go outside. Like, let’s go to the park. Let’s do something. And I clicked into a routine with that. Here I’ve started taking for granted again all but mostly August. The weather is very pleasant, it’s very nice. And you could go to that park today, but there’s no, like, you don’t have to start some big rush to do so. Tomorrow’s probably also going to be very nice. And it feels very laid back. It feels like plans don’t have to matter so much. Timing. This is the day we’re going to do this thing doesn’t have to matter so much. Just roll with it. And if today feels like the right day, then we can. We’ve tried multiple little trips away from here, up into Umbria or up into. Up into, I guess Tuscany. Almost Tuscany. And it won’t work. For whatever reason, we start driving, we gotta turn around or we like, we just don’t even get out the door because work’s going crazy something. And in Seattle, that would feel like more of a loss. And here, I don’t know, it’s. We’ll just try next weekend because also we don’t have too much of a social routine built yet. So next weekend will be free. What else will we be doing if not trying to do this adventure again? Like, it’ll be fine.
Katy
Do you want to add anything?
Brie Ripley
We have some friends now.
Ryan Sparks
Some.
Brie Ripley
We’re making friends.
Katy
I mean, that’s the other thing. It is like, I mean, you’re 10 months in and you think, like, oh, yeah, I’ll move somewhere. Ten months in, you still might not have that many friends. You might have, like, next to nobody, depending on what happens. I mean, outside of work, obviously. I think of you both as very social people from what I’ve observed, especially of Bree, because we used to work together. What has that been like for you to find, you know, yourself, go from being surrounded by a lot of people you’ve known for a long time to being the new people basically on the block?
Ryan Sparks
I think for me, this is another sort of like, what’s the phrase? The wherever you go, there you are or something. Right. It’s that, like, if I actually look back at that community and the friends that I had made in Seattle, a lot of them, most of them were from places I had worked, and then the communities that are around those people and friends of friends. I was never a great meet a stranger, become a friend guy, and that continues to be the case. So most of the friends we’ve made here are mostly through Bree’s work, because I work remotely, so no one that I work with is here. So mostly it’s been Brie’s work friends, and they’re great. It’s been really cool to continue to sort of, like, meet new people and who are from different places. I think most of them are not from Italy, but they’re from elsewhere in Europe, from the UK. And even last night was, like, 10 months in, was one of the first times that we went to, like, a party, like a proper party. Not, let’s go get dinner with one friend. Let’s go to a large thing with lots of people. And it was so much fun. I’m not sure if you can hear the raspiness in our voices, but today was a rough day following last night because it was so much fun. And it reminded me, like, it just takes one or two connections or people, and then it’s who they know and who that person knows and who that person knows. And it’s been a while since I’ve done that, and that’s fun. That was very exciting.
Brie Ripley
That was really cool. Yeah. I lost you at that party a couple of times. You were. You made friends super fast. You found people in the kitchen. You were showing them the balcony that you were like, can you believe balconies like this exist? They’re all over Italy.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah. Are you a UN husband, too? Let’s chat.
Katy
There’s a lot of derogatory terms for the people who come with somebody else who has a job. I mean, the most common Is the trailing spouse, which is one I’ve never really loved. And it’s the one you hear the most often is the trailing spouse, which just sounds. As a person who was the trailing spouse. It just sounds so depressing. It seems like as if Bree has you on a leash and she’s dragged you across the world, you know, and you’re just like, now go sit in the corner while mom does real things. You know, it says that kind of. For me, it’s always felt that way. She has a purpose. You do not. Good luck. But yet there are, quote, unquote, trailing spouses all over the world. And so, I mean, did you find that you had anything in common with these other people that were in a similar situation to you? And did you talk about it, I guess is another thing.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah, absolutely. And some of them are fresher into that experience than I am. Like, I thought 10 months, and I’m still the newbie here. But there were folks that. The trailing spouse, I suppose, that just arrived, like, last month, and you could kind of see it in his eyes. I was like, you’re acting very intensely. Not unfriendly, but just, like, very. Like, you need this conversation right now. And I’m like, I do too. But I could feel it. And I’m like, oh, I’ve been there. I know what that feels like. Where you’re like, I just need to talk to somebody. I need to talk to a single person about my own stuff. Not about this job that my spouse has. Not about any small truisms of like, oh, isn’t Rome great? But just to talk to me about the experience of redoing your own experience of figuring that out. So they were all very nice. Let’s just stop there.
Katy
Okay? Yeah, Brie. Let’s flip it as the. I don’t know what the term is for the non trailing spouse, the leading spouse. I don’t know.
Brie Ripley
Main character energy.
Katy
Character energy. There you go. What has that been like for you to be that in that role?
Brie Ripley
Well, I have to say, it does all of a sudden occur to me that it’s a lot of pressure. Like, I will sometimes in, like, really heated moments be like, oh, you know, I just. This is really tough that, like, our visa, our ability to even stay here is tied to my job. I’ve never had, you know, more, you know, health insurance is a big deal. Having that tied to your job, I’m not really so sure about anymore. I don’t really think that maybe that’s a good idea. That’s me working With a lot of Europeans being like, socialized healthcare, maybe we do that more. I don’t know. It does feel kind of intense. Like, I have a lot to do with my job all the time, and it’s a very high pressure job, and I make a lot of connections at work. I am a social person, and a lot of the people that I work with, I also go out and have a pair of TiVo with or I go have dinners with, hang out with on the weekend. And it matters to me that I also. Can my husband come? Can, like, we hang out? Oh, you invited me to a party. Can I bring my husband? You know, like, really just trying to, like, incorporate us. You know, we’re a team and making sure that, you know, we get out and we socialize and I’m not just strapped to my computer in an office or in our apartment. And also, it just. It does feel intensely. Again, just having this whole experience be tied to me doing a good job at work. That is not my favorite reality right now.
Katy
Do you feel a different kind of responsibility for each other’s emotional well being than, say, you would have if you were. I know you’re a fairly newlywed couple, but do you think it’s somehow different by the fact that you’re living in a foreign country?
Ryan Sparks
Not for me, I don’t feel. Or if. If I do, I feel like it’s a trap. Like, the temptation is to be more involved in her work day. For you to ask me so many more questions about work than we would have. I think, back in Seattle, because we’re around each other a lot more often. It’s like, you have been my best friend, but it’s like, now we’re going to truly just do most of our activities always together. There’s less of an independent life. And again, you build those things over time. But, like, I’ve noticed that when I start to get too closely invested in, like, oh, man, Bree’s really just struggling with work this week. What can I do? That’s great. That’s very kind. That’s very charming. It doesn’t matter if what I do goes well for her. It doesn’t matter if that helped turn it around. That’s not really up to me. And I noticed more codependent urges, but hopefully I’m spotting them because I don’t think. I think we’re at a pretty good level already of trying to help each other when one is struggling, trying to lean in. But, like, you don’t own the outcome of the other person’s feelings. You can’t. You can’t.
Brie Ripley
You’re not.
Katy
Yeah.
Brie Ripley
Responsible for them.
Ryan Sparks
Oh.
Brie Ripley
And I feel like the healthy flip of codependence is interdependence. Like, we are interdependent. We are a couple. We have a system. You know, like, I depend on you for socialization and, like, care and love and affection, and I know vice versa. I also think that, yes, it’s become more intense. As for me, you know, living here and planning to go to the grocery store, are we going to go to the one where we can speak to them in English? Are we going to go to the. To the butcher that does not speak any English and, like, you know, a little bit more Italian than me? And so it’s more. It’s useful if you go with me. I, you know, I used. It was like, I’m going to go fly and buy at the grocery store. I’m going to run over in town. And then, like, if I went to the grocery store, you would cook or, like, we would do something like that back at home in Seattle. And these days, it’s like we’re going to do almost everything together, because tackling these challenges together is easier than doing them individually. We’re doing more things in a pair rather than, like, distributing the work, I feel like.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah, correct. I agree with that. And what I mean is, like, that points out where there’s existing friction of you and I working as a team. Right. Which is not a lot of it. But when you try to do anything with anyone, you have to take what they want into account. You have to. When you go to order that meat, you have to ask them, you want this cut or this cut, rather than just choosing one. And so, yes, it is easier to do those things. And I think both of us would agree that most of this experience I wouldn’t do alone. I would have said no to many, many choices along this way if I was not with you. Yeah, but then there’s also. But then there’s also, when you do anything with somebody else, it’s going to be a little less efficient. It’s going to be a little harder. So, yes, it is necessary and useful to have to do things together and to do the chores and the errands and all the stuff more together. But then also, we’re going to bump into each other more because it’s just like, we just. A lot more questions. Do you want this or this? Do you want this or this? What do you think about this thing?
Brie Ripley
First, a lot of questions. I remember I did, like, just Last week I was like, I’m really done with the questions.
Ryan Sparks
No more questions.
Brie Ripley
Can we just, like, make some decisions and brief each other on what we just decided? Yeah, yeah. No, that I. I feel like I hit a breaking point, like last weekend where I was like, can we be done? Can you just. Can you choose this thing? Yeah.
Katy
I’m curious about the type of people you are. Answer for yourselves. Would you have done this if you were a single person alone and we’re.
Ryan Sparks
Answering for, like, now in our lives? Like.
Katy
Like, yeah, how you feel now, except Bree’s not here. How Brie feels now, but you don’t exist. You know, that kind of thing. You get a job opportunity and you get to move to Rome. Would you have done it?
Ryan Sparks
I actually don’t know Brie’s answer, so I’m very excited to hear her answer, too. But my answer is, no, I would not have. I really love Seattle. I really love the community I have built there. And when it comes to jobs and things, I could. I liked the job that I had in Seattle, and I could also picture lots of other new ways I might move into different kinds of work there over time. So my answer would have been no, because, like, to me, I think moving abroad was. It’s like a vision, but it wasn’t one that felt practical or real or I had any drive to do right. I hadn’t yet visited somewhere, though, where I was like, I wish I could stay here for six months. I loved visiting, but I was usually glad to go home. And so for me, no, no way. I’m very glad that it’s worked the way that it has. And we could talk after about, like, the way that I think I’m growing from that. But no, definitely not. I would say no.
Brie Ripley
I’m a yes. I love. I mean, I’m a little bit of a chaos agent. I do like to say yes to opportunity and. And I also feel like that, you know, I’m learning a lot more about kind of the naivety that comes attached with that. Like, I was very naive to what actually it was going to be like to live abroad. So if I had no idea, based on what I know now, if I had no idea, and I’m just thinking about myself as I am, my nature, like, I’d be like, hell, yeah, I’m going to move to Romesight unseen and work for, you know, this incredible organization and travel around Europe as much as I can and elsewhere, you know, like, I’m going to go around the world. And I think it was because I Also, just didn’t have. I’ve never had an opportunity like that before. And I really wanted to study abroad in undergrad, in college, and I never did. And I feel like that was always kind of like a shucks, I really should have done that. Like, I really should have just made that happen. So, like, knowing myself, I would have been like, yeah, I’ll be there tomorrow, not having any clue that, like, maybe go check out the place, maybe have an apartment figured out, not just an Airbnb landing pad. Like, maybe, like, I would have gone all gas, no brakes, for sure. And I feel like that’s what makes us really compatible too. It’s because I am that person that, you know, does that. I go head first, and you’re like, have you considered a helmet?
Katy
Well, that makes me want to ask you Brie. Like, now that you’ve done this, now that you went. I mean, granted, you did it together, but, like, you went headfirst, gas on into this experience, and now, you know, 10 months later, like, what. What this experience has been, would you do it again? Is that just, like a core part of your personality, or have you somehow changed?
Brie Ripley
Oh, I’ve. I feel deeply changed.
Katy
You know, a conservative, you know, not gonna take any risks from here on out.
Brie Ripley
Yeah, no, it’s not. I mean, kind of, I’m less of a risk. Like, I don’t know. Here’s what it feels like. It feels like knowing what I know now, I would have been more practical. I would have been like, thank you so much for this job. Your expectation that I move to Europe within two to six weeks, to roam in two to six weeks is really not going to work for me. And here is what I need to make it work for me. I’m learning more about what I need to have the groundedness that I desire at this point in my life as a. As a person who is getting more adjusted to just the world and the experience of living. Like, I’m 31, like, I want to have, you know, I want to have comfort, stability, groundedness, connectedness. I would have liked to have an apartment together. I would have liked to figure out what transit was going to be like in the neighborhood that I lived. And I would have liked to figure out, could I get a car sooner than maybe later? You know, like all of those things. And I would have liked to have my list of questions. And of course, I’m somebody that comes with a list of questions, but I would have liked to think about those a little bit longer. And so knowing what I know Now, I probably still would have made the leap, but would have been a little bit more measured and would have probably prolonged the leap a little bit more.
Ryan Sparks
Yeah. If I think back to the decision making process in what was that? I suppose November, before we got full details and we decided we would do it. I remember you were like, help me write this list. What is the list of questions I should ask? And we wrote one together. We were like, here’s I think all of the things we should ask about. When do we need to start? How long can that be prolonged, et cetera, et cetera. Right. And you asked that and you got pretty good answers from them towards the things that we were concerned about. And then that night you were like, Ryan, there is no world in which I don’t take this job. And it’s like, speaking of all gas, no breaks, like, that’s that. That was the experience, that is the way that it happened. Right. And I think if I hear you correctly, you’re saying that the thing that’s left out of that is, will you have enough peace throughout that process that you just said yes to, to do it? Right. Because you can do it. You have done way harder things than this. But will it be peaceful? Like a new word that I don’t think was on your list back then, peace or groundedness, any of that. I don’t think it’s more about, like, excitement and achievement and this is going to be such a growth opportunity, which all those things are true, I don’t think. Yeah, groundedness was, like, on the list.
Brie Ripley
Well, I feel like you have to have that in order to change your perspective, in order to really have a reality shift, you have to have some stability and, like, rootedness and, like, you know, then you, like, put yourself into the unknown and you have, you know, discomfort, and discomfort creates, you know, new discoveries. But it’s like, unless you can have that consistency, the stability of, like, going back to your apartment, that definitely has AC or like, definitely has, you know, all the things you need to cook, your favorite meal, you know, your comfort meal, which you can’t find at restaurants in your neighborhood, like, that’s all super important. And I didn’t know that about myself before, is that I need that, I need that. Those routines and that landing pad and peace was definitely not a part of my vocabulary.
Ryan Sparks
And for anyone who may be curious, the comfort food is tacos. It’s absolutely tacos.
Katy
It makes sense, Ryan. I mean, I have to ask because the way that she says this is something I absolutely have to do. This is not the thing. I mean, the way that sounds potentially to a listener is that you didn’t really have a choice if you wanted to stay with this woman, you’re going whether or not you like it. Is that how it felt at the time?
Ryan Sparks
Not quite the existential. If I want to stay with her, this is what I’m doing. Because I have. I don’t know, I have such a deep trust with Bree that, like, there’s not a world in which we’re not together moving forward that I can imagine, but physically together. Yeah. And it was jarring. That was tough, because that’s not how I make decisions. I don’t jump in headfirst almost ever. That doesn’t mean I don’t jump, but I don’t jump in headfirst. And so when I’m suddenly on your timeline in that moment, when I’m suddenly on your timeline of, like, yep, it’s decided. And I was like, what about this? This, this. What if my job doesn’t work out? Then, like, we. I’m not sure what make what getting a new job is going to look like and if I even have the right visa to. From her job, et cetera. And we actually never got the answers to those questions because luckily, we didn’t need it. But that was. That was jarring. Yeah. I had to process through quite a bit of anger, and we ended up talking about all those things, and you softened all of the way that you spoke about it from that moment forward. But I know that was your reality. Your reality was, I can’t imagine not doing this. And I think the truth is, if it wasn’t good for me, if this wasn’t a risk worth taking for me, we would have talked about it. I would have talked to you about it. And I actually don’t think you had already jumped, But I think the way that you process change is to act and speak as if you have, because that’s the only way for Brie. That she definitely will do it. And again, I think that mostly has served her throughout a lot of different decisions, but, like, she’s gonna speak as if, like, oh, it’s a done deal. It’s already signed. I move. I move next week. Yeah. And again, if there were actual big problems, I don’t doubt that she would have prioritized me us talking about it. I don’t actually believe that this career was the top priority. Must happen. But again, I know Brie well enough after six years of partnership, that’s always how it’s going to sound. That’s always how it’s going to sound when a big decision is in front of us. It’s already a done deal. You cool with that, Ryan?
Katy
Is there anything you want to add to that?
Brie Ripley
If Ryan’s right? I mean, my very good friend John O’Brien once told me about power posing, and he was like, you gotta do it. You gotta, like, go in front of the mirror and make, like, a powerful pose, and I’ll make your whole day better. I think he listened to NPR story about it and was telling me about it over text. You know, I thought about that while Ryan was describing kind of the way that I do that. I feel like I do semantic power posing. Like, I do semantic posturing. Maybe it’s like, you know, the form of manifestation, or I’m like, no, this is going to be great, and it’s going to be amazing. And to me, now, when I’m on the other side of that, it does feel like kind of that naivety. Like, naivety. Like, I feel like, mmm. You know, like, I really, really want it to work out, and I want everything to be amazing. And it helps me build that confidence to really, you know, say it how I intend and want for it, turn out and act like that. And if I can act like that for a little, maybe a little be it. And yeah, it might all be a house of cards.
Katy
Well, I mean, if you had to describe. Since we’re almost out of time, if you had to describe how it feels right now. How does it feel right now?
Brie Ripley
It feels like I am in a part of my life that I am really, truly savoring, and I get to be in the moment and savor. And that wasn’t a thing that I was aware of as a part of my process as a person before. Like, what does it mean to savor something? What does it mean to truly be here now? And I felt like when I woke up every day in Seattle and saw water or mountains in every direction that I looked in, I was like, this is a beautiful place to be. And I still didn’t really have that concept of savoring it. So I feel like anywhere I go after this experience, I’ll get to take that with me. And that feels like a treasure.
Katy
How about you, Ryan? How does it feel right now?
Ryan Sparks
Pretty similar to what Brie said. For me, moving to Seattle from the east coast of the States was my first adventure. That was the new place to set up shop where I don’t know anybody and to sort of start from scratch. And so that itch was already scratched for me. Right. It’s cool to be in a. In a totally different country with a different culture, but the starting over wasn’t an urge for me. But what I’m learning here is that we could kind of do this anywhere. And that sounds maybe. Maybe very entitled, but, like, if you and I are here and if there’s some amount of luck and context and privilege of, like, we have a job where we can make enough money to do. To do some things we would like to do. It’s not about the specifics. I think I would. I would spend the rest of my life if not for Brie and some of those strong pushes, trying to optimize down to the perfect thing Ryan likes the best. And, oh, that’s the. That is the restaurant that I like the best, and that is the place that I will go now, always. And it’s not about that. Like, we could, if. If there was a need to, you and I could be in a different state in the US Rather than Washington, and build that thing and savor that thing and just go a little more slowly through. It doesn’t have to be optimized. It doesn’t have to be a narrative that makes sense to anybody, including myself. It could just be the next step in that narrative, and I don’t have to know where it goes yet.
Katy
Love that. So do we want to leave it there, or is there any other thoughts you guys really want to share before we shut it down?
Brie Ripley
Gift your loved ones Italian lessons.
Katy
If you love Italy, start it now.
Brie Ripley
Start it young, get it going. You won’t regret it.
Katy
So true. I can’t thank you guys enough for doing this. So 10 months in, you don’t know exactly how long you’ll be here, but maybe we’ll have to check in again along the way. Whether or not it is when you return to Seattle someday, or if I catch you here in Rome next year, next October, when I’m here for the 2025 trip. Either way. Either way. Thank you so much. It’s so good to be with you guys today.
Brie Ripley
It’s so lovely to be with you, Katy. Thank you.
Ryan Sparks
Thanks so much.
Katy
All right, and we’ll leave it there. And until next time, this is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall. Talk to you soon. Bye.
Visit Rome in 2025
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