Why do so many people fall in love with Rome? We dig into that on Episode 561: What Is It about Rome?
“You fall in love with Rome very slowly, a little at a time—but for all your life.”
Nikolaj Gogol sums up so perfectly what many people experience when visiting Rome.
The city can be so overwhelming, so daunting, that many people aren’t able to fully experience it on their first visit, or even their first few visits. And yet, it’s a city that has captivated and fascinated people—perhaps beyond any other city—for centuries if not millennia, and it continues to do so to this day.
So what is it about Rome? What is it that pulls people here, over and over and over? What is it that brings people back year after year?
Tiffany and Katy try to put their finger on why so many people fall helplessly in love with Rome (either little by little or suddenly), and why one of Rome’s most impressive qualities is its resilience. It’s a city that has been burned, flooded, sacked, and destroyed countless times. Yet like a phoenix, it emerges from the ashes somehow better than it was before.
You can listen right here, or find the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, and elsewhere.
Related Episodes:
Episode 432: Rome Through All the Senses
Episode 426: Touring Rome with Tiffany
Episode 354: Virtual Tour of Rome with Special Guests, Part 2
Episode 353: Virtual Tour of Rome with Special Guests, Part 1
Episode 313: Virtual Tour of Rome
Five key takeaways from the episode:
- The hosts are wrapping up their 2024 Rome tour and planning another tour for October 5-11, 2025, coinciding with Rome’s Jubilee year when the city will be at its best.
- They discuss unique sounds of Rome, including church bells, seagulls, construction noises, and the disappearance of accordion players on street corners.
- The hosts explore why Rome is a special destination, citing its layers of history, art from various periods, and the perspective shift it provides on the concept of time and history.
- They highlight Rome’s resilience through centuries of challenges and its ability to repurpose and adapt buildings and spaces over time.
- The hosts express the bittersweet nature of ending the tour and reminisce about past participants, while encouraging interested listeners to join future Rome tours.
Full Episode Transcript:
Come to Rome
Hey, it’s Katy. Thanks so much for joining us the last couple weeks as we journey through Rome with the people who came on our 2024 tour. Today’s episode is the last episode that Tiffany and I recorded together while I was in town this past October. It is not going to be the last episode that happens in Rome, but this is a farewell to Tiffany and my time as well as our time with the guests that came. And we have decided that we are going to do this trip again in 2025. The entire city of Rome is being restored as I speak right now. The city is going to be at its fanciest and its finest in 2025 for the Jubilee year and we are planning on going October 5th to the 11th. Soon, information about the upcoming trip is going to go out to our supporters at patreon.com/thebittersweetlifepodcast and to our supporters at PayPal. Then it’s everyone on our mailing list. If you’re not on the mailing list yet and you want to be notified about this trip and get more detailed information, send us an email. bittersweetlifepodcast@gmail.com you can find that email address in our show notes and just let us know you want to be on the list. We don’t use your email address for anything else. You can also read detailed information about the tour at www.thebittersweetlife.net And let us now journey into Rome.
Opening
Welcome to Rome. This is the Bittersweet Life with Katy Sewall and Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Hello.This is the Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall.
Tiffany
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Tiffany in Rome. Katy also in Rome. Although this is the very last day of our 2024 Rome tour, it was an amazing time. Tonight is our final sort of celebration dinner with everybody to kind of culminate an amazing week that we shared together. And then I will be shipping off and leaving you here in this fine city all by yourself.
Tiffany
You should stay longer.
Katy
I know, but you know, that’s the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Umbrella calls. Gonna do a little vacation on my way home. Never hurts to take a vacation after working, but. But we wanted to do some sort of goodbye Rome episode and I did leave the windows open for this taping because I kept thinking we should do something in the streets and we’re not gonna have time to do something in the streets. So I’m like, some sort of ambient noise might flow in here. You might hear some honking horns, you might hear some banging, you might hear the Guy walking around upstairs. Either way, I wanted to end with a little ambiance. One thing we noticed this year walking around Rome is that a lot of things were being restored this year because next year is a big jubilee year. It’s a big fancy year for Rome. So everything’s going to be looking at its tip toppity most perfect shape. But as a result, and I don’t know if you noticed this, Tiffany, but as a result, I saw very few actual working fountains during the time that I was here. I think I saw two fountains on all of our five days of walking that had water in them, flowing out that weren’t sources of water like the Nazone.
Tiffany
So let’s see. The Turtle fountain was running.
Katy
Okay, three Turtle fountain was running. We saw what we call, what I call the fountain of the Barfing Jesus. It was running, although it was just trickling.
Tiffany
That’s the Mascarone fountain. For those of you who don’t know Katy’s name for it and have been.
Katy
To Rome and know what that is. And. And then obviously. What was the third one? It was the Barcaccia.
Tiffany
The Barcaccia fountain in Piazza di. Was running.
Katy
Yes, There you go. So that was the third one. Yeah. But most of the rest of them were drained and under restoration, under scaffolding, so it’ll be interesting. And we are planning on doing this trip again next year, so mark your calendars.
Tiffany
Yeah, the fountains will likely be running next October, probably the first week, but we haven’t set the dates yet.
Katy
Yes, we’re thinking the 5th to the 11th, but we will confirm in the coming weeks that those are the dates. If you’re interested, send us an email and we’ll put you on the list. But I did kind of miss that element since the, you know, since we did our 10th episode, our 10th year anniversary episode, and we talked about the sounds that were in the opening montage. That was an episode we just heard like a week ago or two weeks ago. And so I did miss the sound of the fountains, I have to say, this year. And then I kept noticing sounds that could be added to the montage after we talked about it. If we were to remake it now 10 years later.
Tiffany
Can I guess a few. Someone like building scaffolding.
Katy
Well, that seems very specific to this year.
Tiffany
But I mean, that’s always kind of going on in Rome.
Katy
Kind of a clang, clang, clang, clang.
Tiffany
That’s always going on in Rome somewhere. There’s always some place that’s being that’s under Restoration. The parrot screeching.
Katy
Yes. We had. There’s a ring, rosy ring necked parakeet. We always call it the Rome parrots, but it is a parakeet, technically monk parakeet. Yes. They’re everywhere now. They have. They are an invasive bird that has proliferated very successfully. Another sound that I think I’ve always noticed here, but I guess I’ve never highlighted, is the sound of seagulls.
Tiffany
Hmm. Yes. I’m not particularly fond of them. Sorry.
Katy
But it’s a different sound. Like your seagulls here sound different than the seagulls in Seattle. It maybe want to have you tape them here and have me tape them there and put them up against each other and see what the Roman seagull is against the Seattle seagull. So the seagulls was another sound that I noticed a lot.
Tiffany
I can think of another one.
Katy
Okay.
Tiffany
The sound of the back of a big truck opening and closing really hard, like voom. And then voom. When they close it again.
Katy
That’s very, very good. That’s very good. Of course, how can you really capture the sound of drunk young people walking home at 4 in the morning with it echoing off the buildings? I wouldn’t want to put that in the opening montage. That keeps me up too much at night. That is a good one with the truck. Is there anything like melodic that you hear a lot or something? That’s a pretty sound because all of those, in a way, are kind of screeching.
Tiffany
You already have the church bells. That’s a big one. The cannon from Jenny Glowhill, which went.
Katy
Off last night right before the fireworks started.
Tiffany
They don’t usually shoot it off at night. It’s usually just at noon, so that’s cool. I can’t think of anything else. I’m sure there are. I’m sure there are. I mean, it’s not a particularly musical city. Like if when you go to Vienna or Salzburg, like you hear music everywhere. You just hear choral singing coming out of windows. You hear a piano coming from behind a door. You do get a little of that on one little street in Rome where the Santa Cecilia Conservatory is. And you can hear it sometimes if you’re walking past the opera house, you can hear people practicing. But it’s not. I wouldn’t call that quintessentially Roman.
Katy
Yes, I think that’s right. Although we have talked in older episodes. I think last time I was in Rome, we did an episode where we talked about what has happened to all the accordions, because it used to be 10 years ago, 15 years ago, there would be accordions on every street corner and alongside violins and harpsichords and other kind of very iconic instruments that would always be side by side here.
Tiffany
Harpsichords, Katy. Harpsichords.
Katy
Well, what is that thing called Dulcimer? The dulcimer.
Tiffany
Sorry, I’ve never seen any. Anyone on the street with a harpsichord.
Katy
It’s a classic Roman instrument. No. Yeah, the dulcimer.
Tiffany
Like Mozart sitting there playing on this side of the road.
Katy
Strum, strum. Yeah. But that said, and I’ll end with this at the end of the episode, that said, I did see our favorite accordion player playing on multiple occasions walking around this time. And so I did stop to record her, and she was playing alongside of a man playing the guitar this time.
Tiffany
Duet or just they were dueling?
Katy
No, they were playing together.
Tiffany
I did not notice that.
Katy
Yeah. So how do you. How do you feel like the week has gone?
Tiffany
Oh, it’s got me. It’s been great. It’s been so much fun. We’ve had such a great group. We’ve had so such a cohesive group. I mean, everybody’s gotten along. People have made new friends. You know, just watching everybody interact has been fun. And everyone just getting to know them all, that’s just been a huge highlight for me. And in watching lots of eyes get bright and shiny when they’re seeing things they’ve never seen before and learning things.
Katy
They’ve never heard, yeah, it has been very special. So if you’re listening to this and you were on the trip, thank you so much for coming. Truly, it was an honor to show you around Rome. One thing I want to explore in this episode, I guess as a question if anyone’s considering on coming on this trip, is, you know, we kind of explore a lot of, like, why travel? And of course, we talk a lot about Italy on this show. But why Rome specifically? Like, what is the value of visiting Rome specifically? That is something I. I’ve thought a lot about over many years. But what would you think, like, if we were to say, why should somebody go to Rome rather than, like, say, go to Vienna or go to.
Tiffany
Or even go to somewhere else in Italy? I can speak for myself that before I spent a significant amount of time in Rome, I didn’t get the appeal. To me, Rome seemed like this big, really big, loud, hot, dirty, chaotic place that probably had some amazing things to see, but it was just, like, the thought of it was overwhelming. I was much more attracted to the idea of Florence and Tuscany in general. Small towns I stayed in Lucca for a month. I stayed in Cremona for a couple of weeks. And I love the small town Italy. I just eat it up. And I thought, well, that to me, is Italy. And I would never. You know, I wouldn’t. I’m not that. Just Rome is never that appealing to me until I finally spent a significant amount of time here.
Katy
And it’s, like, almost barbaric compared to these beautiful little hill towns.
Tiffany
Yeah, I mean, it’s just. It’s. It’s overwhelming. It can be crushing. It can be. If you’re not prepared for it, it can be unpleasant. And I hate to say that because I love it so much, but it really can be. And even my first time to Rome, I saw a lot of great stuff, but it was overwhelming. And I was almost like, I can’t.
Katy
I.
Tiffany
When I was only, I think, 19. But I was like, I can’t take this anymore. I just can’t take it. It’s too much. So what is it about Rome? It’s. Can I quote Gogol?
Katy
Please do. Would I ever stop you? I mean, how could I?
Tiffany
I’ve discovered so many amazing quotes about Rome since I made that literary tour. I don’t want to misquote it, but this is pretty much the extent of it. Rome is a place you fall in love with a little bit at a time, but for all your life. I know there are people who’ve said, oh, no, I fell in love with Rome instantly. And I’m sure that can happen, too. But for me, it’s like. It’s the layers, it’s the slowly getting to discover it, to. Taking the time to search out those hidden sites, to find. To look at something for a long time. Not just be in a huge gallery and there’s 3 million paintings, and, you know, you just. They’re all going by like a blur, you know, to study something, to look at it closely, to absorb it, to breathe it in. And I think that Rome offers. I mean, it’s almost. I feel stupid saying Rome offers so much because it’s like, it’s an understatement. How can you. How can you explain how much art and how much history is in one city? It’s almost unbelievable, really. Like, you wouldn’t even if you’d come here to visit and you’d seen the top sites, you haven’t scratched the surface. And even I probably haven’t scratched the surface. And people who, you know, art historians and archaeologists who live here their whole lives, would say, you know, your knowledge is nothing. Compared to what else there is out there to know, probably.
Katy
If I may interject for just a moment though, I think you have definitely scratched the surface.
Tiffany
I know. No, I’ve got. I’ve gone beyond the surface. I’ve gone on the surface. There’s more, but.
Katy
I know there’s more, but if anybody scratched the surface, it’s you, or have.
Tiffany
Scratched beyond the surface, I hope. But you know, it’s. It’s like whatever, whatever you like, almost. Whatever you like. You’re gonna find it there. You fascinated by ancient Rome? Check. Do you love the Etruscans? Check. Do you love medieval architecture? Check. Do you love the Renaissance paintings? Check. Do you love the baroque? Check. It’s just on and on and on. I mean, there’s even art nouveau. There’s even. I mean, there’s not as much modern stuff in Rome, but there is some. You can find it, you know, if you look for it, it’s just there’s. It checks every single box. Except, you know, small town. Except if you do go to Trastevere, you can almost feel like you’re in a small town for a little bit.
Katy
Well, and I would argue too, like a lot of the places that we lead people, you know, there’s a lot of like really busy, thorough affairs in Rome, but we kind of know when to take a right and all of a sudden it’s like, oh, all of a sudden it’s as quiet as could be. You know, you just turn one corner and it’s like you’re in a little twisty village. It’s kind of incredible in that way. I think that at least coming from the United States point of view, I think that one of the biggest values in coming to Rome, given that Rome’s history is so long and that there’s evidence of it for so far back, I mean, do you have any idea, like, what is the farthest back evidence we have of human civilization, of something that still exists, of human civilization that you could come see, that you could go see?
Tiffany
I would.
Katy
Or an estimate of a date?
Tiffany
I mean. Yeah, I don’t know how much of it you can see, but I know that they have discovered archaeological ruins of dwellings on the Capitoline Hill that go back to the Bronze Age. The Bronze age is from 3200 BC to 600 BC. So, you know, drop a pin. I don’t know exactly where it will land in that 2000 year period, but, you know, it’s pretty far back.
Katy
Yeah. So I think, particularly coming from the United States point of view, the United States as the United States, a relatively new country. And we always say, well, obviously there was a lot of history that was happening there before, before the Constitution, before the Revolution, before all the things that we think of as the history of the United States States. That said, I think that there is a feeling, if you’ve never been somewhere like Rome, that things in our past, the Revolutionary War, slavery, the Civil War, all those things happened a really long time ago. And that’s how people feel, like that happened a really long time ago. Slavery, yeah, it happened, but it happened a really long time ago. And then you come to Rome, you don’t even have to look back as far as the stuff that happened before Christ. You can just be looking at something that happened in the 15th century and think, this is longer ago than what we think of as long ago in a country like the United States. Or you could say we looked at many things where you said, what we’re looking at right now happened, what, 100 A.D. or something like that. That’s a long time ago compared to what we think of as a long time ago. And I think that that kind of perspective shift where all of a sudden you get back to the United States and you think, actually, you know, slavery wasn’t that long ago. No wonder we’re still struggling with the after effects of it, because that just happened. It didn’t just happen so long ago that we’re like, why are we not over this yet? Come on, people, let’s stop complaining. You know, it’s generations ago that are touchable still, you know, and that, I think, is a really valuable perspective shift in coming to a place like Rome.
Tiffany
Yeah, it is. It definitely is. And it gives you a sense of your own brevity on this earth when you’re standing somewhere, you know, you’re standing on a bridge that has been there for 2000 years and has been in working order for 2000 years. It gives you a little bit of humility to be like, yeah, my time on this earth is really short compared to the history just of this one city. And of course, history goes back much, much further than the history of Rome, needless to say. But. And that’s another thing that the different layers of history make you feel because you’re like, well, this building, it was an ancient temple, and then it became a medieval monastery, and then it was repurposed into a palace, and then it became the Rome Stock Exchange, and now it’s the Chamber of Commerce. And it’s like, wow, like, not only has this place been standing here for so long, but it’s been in use for so long for so many. By so many different people, has had so many different incarnations. And there’s something about Rome that I think is. I don’t want to say unique to Rome, but it’s definitely very particular to Rome, and that is its resilience. Rome is not a precious city in the sense of, you know, it’s not delicate. It’s not a delicate flower. So many things have happened here. This city has been sacked so many times, it has been burned to the ground. Earthquakes have toppled half the stones off the Coliseum. There have been massive fires that engulfed the entire city. There have been Goths, there have been Gauls. You know, it just. There have been Normans, it’s been devastated, and it’s, you know, been overrun with pilgrims every holy year, and every year, really, since the beginning of Christianity. And it’s still standing and it’s still gorgeous. And every single time it has a reincarnation, something interesting is added. Every time some building is destroyed, it’s always a tragedy, but something is built out of it. And I think, you know, the people are like, oh, my God, Rome is so overrun, and next year’s a jubilee, and, oh, my God, what’s gonna happen? There’s gonna be so many tourists in the city. It’s gonna be. It’s like, you know what? Rome can deal. Rome has dealt with this since the beginning of its history. Rome will be just fine.
Katy
Yeah, that’s so true. I mean, I think it also says something about change, doesn’t it? Because even you listing off how one building can be one thing after another after another after another. And if you come to Rome, if you come to Rome with us on the tour, you’ll learn that, like, sometimes something from ancient times is still standing there because it was repurposed into something else. And if there was no other use for it, it’s gone, you know, and so it kind of has that. If you’re in those positions where you’re sort of dreading change or you’re dreading, like, oh, what are they going to do? They’re going to change this, they’re going to change that. But I really like it how it is. You know, it also shows you that, like, sometimes change is what makes the thing go on. You know, sometimes the change is necessary to keep it moving forward. And I think that’s also kind of an interesting. That’s an interesting perspective. You know, I mean, we were talking a little bit about how things change on the group show that we all did together. And of course, there are restaurants, there are places in Seattle that are slated for demolition and I regret it. And I’m trying to go to those places as much as possible. But also, like you sometimes you have to enjoy a place while it’s there and then you have to let it go, you know, and let it become whatever it is going to become later. And hopefully on the really beautiful buildings, the super gems, the things in the United States that are all newer than most of the things here in Rome, but that are still kind of classic and beautiful, we should hope that they get repurposed into other things. That it’s a beautiful church that’s going to be torn down, that gets turned into condos, whatever it takes to like get it in, to stay part of the landscape. And I think that’s an interesting point of view as well. All right, so we have to get ready to go to a dinner with all of our wonderful guests. It’s always a. I can’t say always. We’ve only done this two years, but last year and this year, I’m sure it is kind of the definition of bittersweet because we’ve all sort of pulled together, we’ve had a really fun and interesting week together. And tonight we get to have dinner with each other one more time before we all disperse back into the world to live our lives all over the place. And it’s kind of a nice together send off, but it is exactly that. It’s bittersweet. It’s the end. It’s the end of the party, you know?
Tiffany
Yep.
Katy
And I have to say, like, we heard from so many. I also want to make a shout out to those of you who came on the trip last year because we’ve heard from a lot of you this week just saying, hey, you know, gosh, I wish I was with you. You know, I’m remembering. I can’t believe it was a year ago already. And that’s. I totally understand that feeling too. And I have to let you know that as I’ve walked alongside this group, I’ve also thought of you many, many times.
Tiffany
Me too. Absolutely.
Katy
Yeah. Funny things we did, funny things we said, stuff that happened at street corners. And even in the dinner that we’re going to tonight, I can picture all of you and what a special time we had. And so thank you also for being the first to ever join us on this adventure. And. And yeah, I mean, our plan is to do it next year. Right now, hypothetically, October 5th to the 11th is what we’re thinking we have to make do checking on some of the arrangements to see if that’s possible. But keep that in mind. And if you’re interested, go ahead and send us a note, bittersweetlifepodcastmail.com and you can find that email, I think, in the show notes. Right. And. Yeah. And I guess we’ll leave it there and go get ready for the party.
Tiffany
All right.
Katy
And until next time, this is the Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall.
Tiffany
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Join us again. Bye.
Come to Rome in 2025
Don’t miss your chance to join us in Rome. We would really love to see you there.
If you have any questions, ask us. You can find information about the trip and contact us by going to www.thebittersweetlife.net.
