On Episode 566: How to Move to Italy, we are joined by a guest who happens to have all the answers.
Thea Duncan is the self-described “fairy godmother to people’s dolce vita dreams.” She’s the founder of Doing Italy, where she and her team help people gain the knowledge and resources they need to move to Italy as well as buy property in Italy with ease, all while avoiding many of the pitfalls that negatively affect other expats when moving abroad.
She answers all our questions, including: Is it really true that you can buy an Italian villa for $1?
And, what is the thing most people get wrong when attempting their big move?
As well as the most basic: what are the easiest ways to move to Italy legally?
If moving to Italy is a dream for you, don’t miss this interview!
Find Thea at her website, or on Facebook or Instagram.
You can listen right here, or find the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, and elsewhere.
Related Episodes:
Episode 563: How to Renovate a 17th-century Italian Villa (with Kaila Merrill)
Episode 557: Ready to Flee the US? Listen to this First!
Episode 551: How to Retire to Florence—with Your Granddaughter (with Dreck Baker)
Episode 546: Advice for Would-be Expats
Episode 533: Italy Welcomes the Digital Nomad
Episode 527: Moving to Rome—Sight Unseen (with Brie Ripley)
Five key takeaways from the episode:
- Thea Duncan, founder of Doing Italy, helps people move to Italy or buy property there by providing knowledge and resources to avoid common expat pitfalls.
- The process of moving to Italy has become more strict and digitalized compared to the past, requiring proper visas and documentation.
- When considering a move to Italy, it’s crucial to have finances in order, understand visa options, and learn Italian to increase chances of success.
- Buying property in Italy can be complex due to differences in the real estate market compared to North America, requiring careful research and understanding of local laws.
- Thea emphasizes the importance of having a clear vision, understanding personal motivations, and prioritizing joy when making the decision to move to Italy.
Full Episode Transcript:
how Update
Hey, welcome to 2025. Happy New Year. Katy here with a note of what to expect in the coming weeks from The Bittersweet Life. Every Monday, as usual, you’ll find a new episode of the show that’s been the same for the last 10 years. But we’re adding a couple things. Tiffany is going to start making special mini episodes a few times a month with insider tips and secrets when it comes to visiting Rome or Italy. And you’ll find those mini episodes on Wednesdays and then this show has been on the air for 10 years and there are tons of great episodes in our archives. We’re going to start airing one of those episodes every Friday. I think you’ll find those episodes just as enjoyable as the new ones. So take a listen, let us know what you think and if you can make a monthly or one time contribution to the show, especially if you enjoy listening and perhaps appreciate the lack of interrupting commercial advertising. As you listen, you’ll find links to donate in the show notes or at www.thebittersweetlife.net. And if you’ve been listening for the last couple weeks, you know that we are raising money to buy me a new traveling microphone. The microphone I’ve been taking to Rome for years is now over a decade old and not sounding so good. I want to thank Jill, JoAnn, Jinny and Stefania for already contributing to that fund. If that tugs on your heartstrings, find the donation button at our website, www.thebittersweetlife.net. And if you don’t have the money, you know another thing that would really help us out in 2025? Tell a friend about the show that means a lot to us or leave us a review wherever you listen. And now on to the show.Â
Introduction
Welcome to Rome. This is The Bittersweet Life with Katy Sewall and Tiffany Parks.Â
Katy
Hello, this is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall.
TiffanyÂ
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Tiffany in Rome, Katy in Seattle. And today we are joined by a guest to kick off this new year. Thea Duncan is the fairy godmother to people’s Dolce Vita dreams. As the founder of Doing Italy, she and her team help people gain the knowledge and resources they need to move to Italy or to buy property in Italy with ease while avoiding many of the pitfalls that negatively affect other expats when moving abroad. Advice we all are interested in need. Thank you so much for joining us, Thea.
Thea Duncan
Thank you so much, ladies, for having me.
Katy
So let’s start with where are you right now?
Thea Duncan
Right now, I’m In Milan, Italy, doing very well.
Katy
And how very well? How long have you been there? How long have you lived in Italy?
Thea Duncan
Oh, I mean, it’s always like, someone was asking me, and I was like, how do I do this math? I like to say for simple math purposes, I first arrived in 2002, but I went back a few times. So I like to say more or less, like, 19 years.
Katy
Wow. All right. You and Tiffany basically about the same.
Thea Duncan
Yeah, yeah. O.G. o.G.
TiffanyÂ
Yeah.
Katy
You guys.
Thea Duncan
Absolutely.
TiffanyÂ
I feel like nobody’s been around as long as I have, so when I meet a fellow 20 year, I’m impressed.
Thea Duncan
Yeah.
Katy
So I did a little digging around on your website, and it seems to me that you started initially going to Italy because you were at a study abroad program. Before the study abroad program, did you always have designs on getting to Italy?
Thea Duncan
I think my story is, like, so many people that moved to Italy is that there was an Italian man involved. Right. So in college, I was dating an exchange student from Italy, and when his year was up, he said, come to Italy. And I grew up in Miami, Florida. My parents enrolled me in a bilingual Spanish program. So basically, Italy was, like, nowhere on my radar. I mean, I knew it existed as a country, but that was, like, about it. My path forward was through Spain. And he basically convinced me. We agreed on a semester in Spain, a semester in Italy. Did the semester in Santiago de Compostela, which I enjoy. Probably would have enjoyed it a little bit more if I’d picked someplace a little sunnier, because Santiago de Compostela rains a lot. And then I went to L’Aquila, which is just outside of Rome, and I was like, this is my country. So he and I broke up. We’re still good friends, though. And I like to say my love affair with Italy began after that.
Katy
And was there beyond the weather. Was there something about Italy where it just sort of. What. What was it that made it feel like, this is the spot, this fits me?
Thea Duncan
Oh, that’s such a good question. Sometimes I ask myself that. I think it’s two things. Like, the very obvious answer in my brain is, I love the food. As a person that, like, truly, like, I feel like food guides my life, my decisions, you know, all those things. Having access to good, quality, relatively healthy, relatively affordable food is, I think, one of, like, my life pillars. And so there’s definitely that. And sometimes I joke that maybe in, like, another life, I was, like, Italian or something. I think sometimes you come here and it just feels right, even though it doesn’t necessarily make sense. And that’s, like, the second reason I’m still here.
TiffanyÂ
I can absolutely relate to that. When I started learning to speak Italian, I felt like. I feel like this is too easy. I. I feel like I was. I’ve been speaking this language in a previous life. It just came so easily to me that after having studied French, which did not come easily, that it was. It was crazy. I felt the same way.
Thea Duncan
Yeah, exactly. Me and French, we do not get along. Like, I’ve tried, I’ve studied, and it’s hard. Doesn’t click. And Italian definitely does. So maybe. Right.
Katy
I mean, here’s a question both of you could answer. Was there something that, like, with all the things that clicked. Right. Was there something that felt wrong?
Thea Duncan
I think my first approach to Italy was a really easy, a really smooth one. I think I’ve always been lucky that I got good, let’s call it Italian men. And not just like. I mean, like I said, we’re friends, we’re not together anymore, but also kind of, like, efficient ones. Because sometimes I hear stories of, like, friends who. They’re like. They don’t help them with anything when it comes to the Questura or of that kind of stuff. And instead, like, my ex, like, I mean, I moved there and he had already found my house, you know, like, I didn’t have to worry about any of, like, let’s say, the initial things that make moving to another country hard. When I moved to Milan years later, which is like, three years later, I think I had all the stuff that comes up, you know, like going to the Questura gazillion times and not getting your peresso or crazy roommates or any of those things. But by then I was, like, sufficiently in love with the country, and I was like, okay, well, I mean, this is just like a road bump, you know, to getting to what I want.
TiffanyÂ
Yeah. And for those listening who aren’t not as familiar with these Italian terms, questura is basically the local police station where you go to start the process of getting your Italian documents. And the permesso is, you know, your basically legal permission to stay and live in a country which is more difficult to obtain than you, than most people could probably imagine. But maybe, Thea, you have, like, the secret tricks about that, because that’s what you do. That is what you now have. I mean, I’m curious, how long from when you moved to Italy permanently, how long did it take until you kind of. Well, I mean, maybe talk to us a little bit about what you do and how you came to doing that how long of living here it took to get to that point.
Thea Duncan
This was like a really long journey to what I’m doing now. And it was a completely unexpected one. So this is like my covet pivot, I like to say. Basically I was living here. I got my master’s degree here. I worked in fashion. I like to say I like pretty things, but I do not like the fashion industry at all. So I stopped doing that and I started doing Italy. And the initial iteration was like food tours or travel. And I think. I think people move to Italy and they teach English and they do something in travel. Right. And basically during COVID traveling wasn’t happening. We were both, my husband and I, in a good place economically. My current husband is a project manager by trade. Right. So another, like, super organized, maybe atypical Italian. Right. The ones that are always on time. And we literally sat down prior to. I mean, I’m in Milan. So, like, this is kind of where it started. And we had like a game plan where like, if this goes on for a month, three months, a year, this is what we’re going to do. So I think I was in a really good emotional financial space. I was like, meditating and cooking. Like, I was chill.
TiffanyÂ
Are you talking about during the lockdown period?
Thea Duncan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. During the lockdown, I didn’t even have my son because my son was with my grand. His grandparents. So, like, a lot of free time and a lot of time to just say, what do I want to do with my life and where do I want to go from here? And so a thought just popped into my head during lockdown. Maybe I should help people move to Italy. That my husband thought I was like, crazy. Like, he was like, this is madness. But I was like, no, this is what I should do. And like, I already had like a decent amount of followers online, so I guess they trusted me. At that point in time, I launched the course. I was like, we’re going to make it live. We’re going to make it together. And I had someone move like three months later in the middle of COVID And so I guess it was one of those instances when things just aligned the way they needed to be again. And I’ve just been doing it since. So.
Katy
Wow. We’re gonna have to have you come back sometime to talk about the fashion industry in Italy and why it is despicable by you. Because I’m totally curious.
Thea Duncan
Stories, stories.
Katy
I know. Let’s just plan it for down the road and not get derailed on this one. Because we need to help the people who right now are dreaming of moving to Italy, like, give them some advice. So let’s do, like, two different categories when it comes to moving to Italy versus, like, actually buying property in Italy. Okay, so when people are planning to move to Italy, what would you say that they can do pretty well on their own? And where do you see them needing the most help?
Thea Duncan
I mean, that is such a good question. I think it may be, where do I see people messing up, perhaps? I think, like, my first thought, my first thing is people don’t understand the difference between getting a visa and citizenship. And some people, like, go in thinking, I need to be a citizen to move to Italy. No, you need to have a visa or be a citizen to move to Italy. And then, I mean, if you do Italian heritage citizenship, which is basically the only way to move to Italy before, like, getting residency, then I see people. But not as much right now, fortunately, some people just don’t understand the concept that they need a visa at all. Like, you do need that. So I think just once they know that they need a visa and not necessarily citizenship, it’s picking which is the best route for them, depending on their stage in life and their income. Right. So, like, in the last few days, I’ve been putting together, like, a freebie on figuring out the right visa route for you and your particular situation. And I think you really need to figure out, what do I want to do with my life and how much does it cost for me to do that also, because, as you ladies know, I’m sure the job and the employment situation in Italy isn’t exactly the best. And so how am I going to maintain myself in Italy? How am I going to get a visa? And then, of course, like, implementing all the stuff that comes after that.
Katy
Yeah. Can you name a couple different types of visas that people go, like, give us an idea of, like, the range.
Thea Duncan
The, like, main three is the elective residency visa, which is basically for retirees or people who have passive income. I have a friend who was here for years on that, and she was in her 40s, but she had several, like, rental properties, I think, in, like, Chicago area. So there’s that one. There’s definitely, of course, now the digital nomad visa that was finally released earlier on this year after much ado, which works for remote workers or freelancers. There’s actually a distinction between both of the visas. Like, the digital nomad visa is like the overarching umbrella, and then you have the two subsections depending on if you’re employed or if you’re working for yourself. And then the student visa, which I think people don’t necessarily realize that you don’t have to be a college student or an exchange student to do so. A lot of my clients come with the intent of improving their Italian. Very important if you want to live in most parts of Italy. And then knowing that you can convert a student visa or study visa into a work permit down the route.
Katy
Okay, let’s say somebody, you know. Here we are. It’s newly 2025. Let’s say somebody wants to be able to move to Italy during this particular year. What do you advise them to be doing right now or get on doing right now besides start investigating the visa situation?
Thea Duncan
Well, think about your finances. Like, the more I talk to people, I. More I realize that having or not having their finances in order is usually the. Like, the caveat that the consulate says no. Even Italian, which I think is super important to know. To live in Italy and be successful in Italy, you can still move to Italy, enroll in, like, an intensive course like I did here, and pick up the language. But if your finances isn’t in order, you, A, won’t get the visa, or B, you’ll move to Italy, not find employment, and be very, very unhappy.
Katy
Mm.
Thea Duncan
So, you know, we don’t want that. We want you all to be happy here.
TiffanyÂ
It took me a year, I think, to find proper employment. Proper is not even the right word. Let’s say gainful employment. It wasn’t necessarily proper.
Katy
Yeah, I don’t.
TiffanyÂ
It wasn’t that.
Thea Duncan
Okay.
TiffanyÂ
It wasn’t that improper, guys. It wasn’t exciting and proper. It was just. It was not necessary. It was under the table. Let’s just put it that way. It took. It took me a year. I was draining. I was living on savings. So that is definitely. And I don’t want to go too off the rails here, but I’ve been thinking quite a bit because I’ve been listening to various expat interviews we’ve been doing. And when I think about how when I moved to Italy, I came with nothing. I mean, compared to what so many people come with. I didn’t have a partner. I didn’t have a job. I didn’t have a visa. I came with no visa. I came. I came clandestine. I didn’t have any friends. I didn’t know anyone. And there was no Facebook and no. And I think. I look back at my. My younger self, and I think, wow, I can’t believe I did that. I’m pretty Proud of myself.
Thea Duncan
Yeah, should be proud of yourself.
TiffanyÂ
But I honestly, I don’t. I don’t. Yeah, I don’t recommend that, though. Do it right, because it was hard. That first year was really hard. It was really hard. So I think you can set yourself up to have a more successful start if you do things a little more methodically.
Thea Duncan
I mean, like, a lot has changed since you and I arrived, too. Like, I had so many friends, American friends, who were, like, clandestine when they first arrived. That really isn’t happening anymore. Like, I have an American friend that got kicked out for, like, ever from Italy because she overstayed her visa. And in the past, we know Tiffany, when you went through, especially in Rome, especially if you were cute, the carabineri were not looking at you. Like, they weren’t looking at your passport. They were looking at you. It’s not like that anymore. Like, they scan your passport and something comes up on your screen. So, like, you really do have to get your immigration stuff organized now.
TiffanyÂ
Yeah, I tell people that all the time. You’re like, how did you do it? And I’m like, don’t go by what I did, because that’s not going to work anymore.
Katy
Why do you think it’s changed? Like, why do you think it’s become so much more official?
Thea Duncan
Just because in Milan and a lot of airports now, when you come through that you scan your document in a computer, and, in fact, you’ll sit and then they’ll take your picture, and you can see the little computer thinking. And so if something isn’t right with the paperwork, it comes up on their screens when before, if they had to investigate, they had to investigate. They had to check through your passport pages to see when was your entry and your exits and all that kind of stuff. It’s all digitalized now, and it’s a lot easier to catch.
Katy
Yeah, I used to joke that when I first started going into Italy that, you know, they didn’t even, like, open the passport to find an empty spot on the page. They would just stamp it on top of, like, whatever, not even an inch.
TiffanyÂ
Sometimes they wouldn’t stamp it. Sometimes they wouldn’t even stamp it. Yeah, they would just. They would open up, look at the picture, and I’d be like, can you. Can you stamp my passport? I’m actually collecting stamps. And I’d be like, all right, fine. But, yeah, my scariest moment with my first year, and I was nervous. You know, I probably didn’t have any reason to be nervous back then, but I was nervous coming back in it was the first time I had been out of the country and I had been in the country for 11 months, so. Talk about overstaying your visa. I came in on a three month tourist visa. I left 11 months later and then came back a month later. And I had to go through Paris. And for, for whatever reason, I, I just. Going through Paris freaked me out because I thought, oh, the French, they’re going to be more strict, they’re going to be more tough. I was standing there, the guy was looking at my passport. He’s like, where are you from? And I was like, Seattle. He had a serious face. And he looked at me and he goes, Seattle supersonics. And I was like, yes. And he goes, Seattle Mariners.
Thea Duncan
Yes.
TiffanyÂ
And he kept naming all the, the sports teams from Seattle. And I was like, oh, my God. You guys just basically gave me a heart attack, dude. Oh, man.
Thea Duncan
So funny. The good thing you didn’t go through England.
TiffanyÂ
Oh, I did want. I did, I did. I almost got kicked out England, but that’s another story for another day. But what I wanted to, to ask you about was, I mean, here we are joking about don’t, you know, you can’t do it the way I did it, so don’t, you know, don’t do it that way. And, and while that is true, I do feel like a lot of expats who have, you know, successful lives in, in, let’s say, Italy or could be anywhere, you know, who’ve integrated, who have a really amazing life living over here and, you know, just doing great. I feel like a lot of people send a message, whether they mean to or not. Kind of like it’s not as easy as it looks. I did it, but you probably won’t be able to do it. Or don’t just think the grass is greener over here, because it isn’t. But I love what you’re doing because you’re like, I’ve done it. And here, let me show you how to do it. And was that part of your decision to go into this business? Like, I want to share the knowledge. I don’t want to gatekeep.
Thea Duncan
I think there’s like, a lot of things going on in my brain, like you. Even though I had help, I made so many mistakes along the way. And so a lot of it was, if you’re going to move here, I really want you to do it in the best way possible. And especially if you don’t necessarily want to spend like €20,000, like on a relocation company. You know, I get a lot of just deep joy in having people move here. And when my clients or my students, they send me a message or, you know, like pictures, and they’re happy, really happy, Especially if it’s like after the initial year, because I think in the first few months you’re like, we’re in a new way. So, like, for me, like, it’s a successful move. It’s like after year, so you dealt with all the bureaucracy and everything. And then I feel like, oh, my gosh, I helped this person do this big life change and in a way, almost making the world a better place. But because I think if they’re more happy people in the world, the world is a better place in that sense. So I think that’s why I do it more than anything else.
Katy
So I asked you earlier, like, what would a person need to be preparing for if they just want to move there, which, you know, could be anybody. If they want to move there this year, they could go, they could rent for a while, they could be going for just a year, they could be hoping to stay. Who knows? But do you think that you need to have a different mindset if you’re wanting to buy property? Is there something. If a person wants to buy property and move to Italy in that regard? Is it similar advice to get your finances in order? Or what’s different if somebody wants to.
Thea Duncan
Buy property and move, or buy property and not move?
Katy
Let’s do both. Let’s do a little of each.
Thea Duncan
Like they’re buying property. It’s pretty easy, let’s say, more or less in the sense that you basically just have to have the money to do it right and know that it’s really hard to get a mortgage. That is basically the buying the property thing. I think when it comes to buying property in Italy, the hard part is, is that there is a huge learning curve in order to successfully buy property here. When in the States, and I reference the States because that’s where I’m from, you have your own real estate agent, and whether you buy house A, house B, house C, it doesn’t make a difference to them. In Italy, you rarely have your own property finder. And even though, like, we offer that service, it’s kind of hard to do because the real estate on the other agent, on the other hand, isn’t used to having to work with another real estate agent. One and two, they don’t necessarily want to share their commission. Two and so I think what I’m trying to say is, like, people get into problems that way because I think maybe they automatically believe what the real estate agent is telling them when that may not necessarily be a good decision. I’ve either heard horror stories or missed, you know, like, kind of like dodged bullets in my years here, even though, like, totally knowledgeable after a gazillion years here. Like, I took real estate agent school, that was 220 hours of class here. But it’s kind of like this jungle when it comes to buying a home here. And I don’t say it to scare people. I say it because, like, I totally believe when it comes to buying, like, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure and then two. But this is almost an easier thing to deal with because the Italian real estate market isn’t as fluid as the American, I’m assuming, Canadian real estate market. Then it becomes really important to understand are you buying at a good price? So if you need to sell it down the road, that you can actually sell it. Because I think a lot of expats come in and then they overpay for property and then they price themselves out of the resale market. Or just understanding people don’t buy and sell homes as often as they do in, like, in North America. So it may take six months to a year outside of, like, markets in Milan, Rome, Florence, and maybe Venice.
Katy
Yeah. Are there places that are easier to buy than other places it’s easier to.
Thea Duncan
Buy because maybe easier to sell? There are places where it’s easier to sell because the market moves a lot more. You know, Milan, Rome, Florence, Venice. Maybe like, Bolzano that, like, none of the expats are moving to.
TiffanyÂ
Yeah, yeah, I’d move to Bolzano tomorrow. Tomorrow I was.
Thea Duncan
Because we’ve been here for a while. You know, I’m like, get me to.
TiffanyÂ
Get me there in any way possible, and I’m never gonna come back.
Katy
Yes, it’s in the northern part of Italy, for those of you who don’t know. I mean, Tiffany and I were just talking a few weeks ago about these regular news stories that we see over here in, in the States all the time about, you know, how we can buy a villa in a small Italian town and it’s only gonna cost us a dollar. From your experience, is that a real thing? And what would be the reality of actually buying one of those properties?
Thea Duncan
People know this by now. It’s a dollar because it needs to be fixed up. You know, like, it’s not even usually a dollar. It’s usually like a bidding auction process. And so people usually end up buying it for like, five grand, more or less, you know, 10, depending on like certain conditions. But these properties need to be fixed up. Does it make sense for you to do that financially? Maybe it does. You know, I think there’s that one Meredith, and she spent like €400,000 fixing up hers. And people like went to town on her. And I’m like, if she has the money, if she’s happy with her decision, she’s making an educated, sound decision. Or even if it’s not financially sound, it’s her money. True me, yeah.
Katy
Yeah.
TiffanyÂ
And some people love doing that. Some people like, they absolutely that that process is like the project of their life.
Thea Duncan
Yeah. I mean, like so much of what I do, at least what I try to communicate to people, like I have what I call my Vita system, my Vita model. V is for vision, I is for income, T is for technicalities, A is for accountability. And I say the first step, even though I mentioned income so much, the first step is really vision. The first step is really who am I? What do I really want for my life? Like really want, and what do I need to do to get that? You know, what I want is going to be different. What Katy wants and what Tiffany wants, and that’s the way it should be. So some people want to live in the middle of nowhere and some people want to be in Milan and somebody wants to be in Bolsano, you know, and some people want to be in Sicily. It really has to be a place of what brings you joy, especially if you’re thinking about picking up and moving across the globe. I say once you understand. And I like to guide my students through questions that I think helps them understand because sometimes we don’t even really know what we want. Right. So I say think about what you really like about your current life and what you really dislike about your current life as like helping you to understand what you do want. Knowing nothing’s forever. So if you have to, you can change. Knowing that changing usually takes money. That’s why income is the next step and go from there, you know, like if you want to like redo a one year old home, go do you. And if you want to like be a diva shooter. Shooter meaning like it’s Milanese dialect for usually they’re like diva older women here. That’s what your life goal is to that I. My life goal is to be in a Milanese shooter.
TiffanyÂ
Well, I like that. I’ve never heard that word before.
Thea Duncan
Yeah.
Katy
And when you talk about, when you talk about technicalities, is that the challenges of the real Estate market or what are you thinking in that regard?
Thea Duncan
Technicalities is just the ins and outs of, like, actually getting your visa. If it’s about buying a property, it’s understanding what, like, the valorica style is, which is basically how you then calculate your property taxes. Or we have a client that we’ve been helping in Sicily, and they actually went to one of the famous big, you know, real estate agencies, and there was something strange on the documenti catastali. So when you buy a property in Italy, there’s documents that are deposited with the city hall, their documents that are deposited with basically the agencia, which is, you know, the tax authorities. And some of these documents still indicate who the owners are, that kind of stuff. And so in this particular case, there was just a person on these documents, and we were like, asking the real estate agent, hey, who’s this woman? Because it says she has, like, rights to the property. It says she’s not an owner, but, like, what sort of rights? And it was like 10 emails later, and basically my client being like, well, I’m not going to buy this house. Like, oh, it’s an error, but we’ll fix it when we get to closing. But if you just believe the agent on face value, then maybe it’s not just an error. And maybe you do get to closing and you come to find out, because that was error. Fear that being Sicily, she may have, like, had land rights to the property and would have had the possibility of building on the land that the house was on. You know, we were like, hey, like, hello.
TiffanyÂ
Oh, my gosh.
Katy
Yeah, it’s nuts.
TiffanyÂ
It’s nuts.
Katy
- Okay, well, before we run out of time, I. I have to ask at least this next question because prior to the most recent presidential election, there was a lot of buzz on both sides of the aisle, no matter who you were voting for, that if things didn’t go my way, I’m just. I’m going to leave. I’m moving abroad. I’m out of here. You know, if things don’t go the way I want, I’m out of here. What do you make of that? What do you think? If somebody’s listening to us right now and is like, you know what? I’m standing by it. I’m out of here. What do you make of that sort of decision making?
Thea Duncan
I have one student who called me and she was like, I want to move to Italy. I’ve never been there, but I think God wants me to be there, literally. And I was just like, dear Lord, have mercy. This is A lot of pressure, but we’ll make it work. You know what I mean? She’s still here, she loves it, she’s happy. So I guess the indirect answer to that is, like, the motive. I have people who write me on socials, and they’re like, the gun violence, the. All these reasons for me means this is not where I want to be anymore. Those are valid reasons. Right. Like, if you want to move for that reason and then you put in the steps to ensure that you’re okay emotionally, financially, all that kind of stuff, do it. I think a lot of people say that, and I saw that. I saw a huge uptake in people, like, contacting me. But then I think a lot of people don’t actually put in the work to make that, like, a reality. So I realized that it’s not really that much of an issue because, you know, just getting your visa can be work. Right. Like, when I did it just went on the website and I applied, and now, like, people are, like, there every single day, you know, like, just trying to get an appointment. So I think the curve to getting here has increased, and I think that ends up weeding out the people who don’t actually want to put in, let’s call it the work and moving. They’ll say it, but they won’t actually do it if it’s just because, you know.
Katy
Right, right. Since we are newly in 2025, what are you personally hoping for this this year?
Thea Duncan
Wow, that’s a very good question. And I actually know the answer. So I’m hoping to help more people, obviously within my scope, within my business, as, you know, moving to Italy, I should say. And I’d really like to broaden that. I think how I started off talking about how much my life in Italy and food is intertwined, and my goal, my intent, God willing, it’ll happen, is to help spread that message a little bit more. So I think Italians have this very unique approach to food. Not all the time, not always. You know, like, these are generalizations, and it’s a little bit more like week I’m going to eat this because it’s made well. I’m going to eat this because I know the farmer that made it, but I’m also just going to eat it because it tastes good and I love that mix. I feel in North America, we get so hung up and either, like, it has to be organic or it has to have protein. And it’s almost this world of extremes that I think ends up having us be unhealthy in our approach. To food unhealthy in our choices around food. And so my goal is to kind of introduce that topic in 2025, but do it in a way that I’d like to say the package is still a package of joy. So it’s not fear mongering or any of those things that’s. You see how I do at it.
Katy
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Joyful. Not like a list of rules because heaven forbid we don’t need another one of those over here.
Thea Duncan
And maybe know who is actually making your food, because that helps a lot. It helps a lot.
Katy
And what about, I mean, besides the fact that people who are interested in moving to Italy should immediately go visit doingitaly.com, your website and read about your business and all the different services you offer, both in person and online courses. Can you give us. Leave us with a couple more final pieces of advice for the people who have this dream to move here. We are kicking off the year. Let’s leave them with some sort of inspiration or advice.
Thea Duncan
I think I was talking to another one of my ex boyfriends and we were talking and I was thinking this particular ex boyfriend was really, really well off. Like really well off. Like multimillionaire well off. And while he was a good guy, I was like, I’m really glad we’re not together anymore. I think we get so tied up and fixated about money in our culture. And I don’t say this to say that money is bad because money is useful. Money can do lots and lots of awesome things. But slash. And I think our internal happiness is literally the most important thing that we have in our lives. Like these past few years I’ve dealt with my own health issues. Like literally last year both of my in laws were dealing with cancer at the same time. And so I’ve been dealing a lot with the literal up close idea that tomorrow is not guaranteed, because it’s not. And with that in mind, I’ve consciously been asking myself what is going to bring me more joy? And having come from a relationship, that’s why I mentioned my ex, where I literally had like cleaning lady and an ironing lady and Michelin starred restaurants every weekend. You know, those things help not having the concerns of how am I going to pay rent, how am I going to get food on the table. But once we get past that, it really is what brings you joy. And I personally think if we do not have this joy within, then the repercussions are seen in our health and our relationships. And then ultimately when we get to whatever the end is, whenever that is, and having regrets about the life that we’ve led.
TiffanyÂ
So, wow, you just went deep.
Katy
And do you, for yourself, have a way that you cultivate that own joy? Because if somebody looks at their life and it’s like, oh, goodness, I am sort of a joyless person.
Thea Duncan
It’s a combination of doing little moments of joy for me personally, so I live in Italy, but I’m a human being. I have a child, I have, you know, a husband. You know, I have work. And so I have to give myself permission. Like, I’m not working. I’m turning off my phone. I’m going to spend time with my son, and we’re just gonna play, or I’m gonna go out with my girlfriends and we’re gonna have a good time, and I’m going to forget about everything else. Like I literally do now, because owning your own business, our brains can keep on going about it for, like, ever. And now it’s literally, I shut off. I’ll watch a funny movie before I go to bed. I’ll read a book. I do meditate. I do a lot of those things. And then it’s been a lot of, like, with my business, like, what I told you all about, it’s been a lot of saying, I give myself permission to. I give myself permission to build a business that I love more. I give myself permission to say no to people when it needs to be no. I give myself permission to go to sleep earlier. I give myself permission to make mistakes. So when I yell at myself, when I said, I’m going to go to bed at X time, and I don’t, I said, I didn’t do a great job this time, but next time I’ll do better. So I also give myself permission not to beat myself up. It’s working. It’s a journey, but it’s working. You know, like, I’ve been enjoying my son so much. You know, he’s just started elementary school. When he walks through the door, I’m closing down the computer, I’m putting away my phone, and I’m playing with him at least an hour. And that has been a process for me, even as someone who’s living in Italy. You know, like, I had to say, I give myself permission to do that.
Katy
All right, well, Everybody go to doingitaly.com we’ll put a link in the show notes, and we will have to have you back to talk about the Italian fashion industry, if you’re willing. Of course, if you want.
Thea Duncan
Okay.
Katy
Thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate it.
Thea Duncan
Yeah.
TiffanyÂ
Where can people find you on social media?
Thea Duncan
Doing Italy. On my website, Doing Italy is Instagram. I was like, doing Italy lifestyle on Facebook because I got kicked out of my doing Italy initial, you know, look for doing Italy and you’ll usually find me.
Katy
All right, well, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Thea Duncan
Thank you all so much, ladies. I appreciate it.
Katy
All right, so we’ll leave it there. And until next time, this is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall.
TiffanyÂ
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Join us again. Bye.Â
Travel to Italy (Rome)Â
If you would like to move to Italy one day, be sure to visit it first. And maybe a good starting point is Rome. You have the chance to delve into the secret side of Rome this very year alongside Tiffany and me. This October, from the 5th to the 11th, we will introduce you to Rome’s secret side and tell you amazing stories along the way. Our trip to Rome, The Bittersweet Life trip to Rome is a trip you will never forget. And it might even be the best trip you’ve ever taken. You can find all the details at www.thebittersweetlife.net I hope you join us in Rome for an unforgettable experience.
