What if moving abroad isn’t great? You’ve dreamed of moving to Italy since you were 16 years old, and after years of scheming and planning, you finally made it happen.
But… you’re not happy.
Could it be that you made a mistake in moving abroad? Or maybe you’re just not in the right town.
On Episode 567: What if Moving Abroad Isn’t Great? longtime listener Darlene Sullivan joins us to talk about what happens when expat reality doesn’t quite live up to your dreams—but how that doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve made a mistake. Sometimes you just need to recalibrate and find a living situation that matches your personality.
Another important lesson: don’t underestimate how trauma might be souring your expat experience. Just because something bad happens in your adopted country, doesn’t mean you’re not supposed to be there.
If you haven’t already, go back and listen to our first interview with Darlene, shortly after her move to Bolzano, Italy back in 2020, Episode 435: When Expat Dreams Come True.
Darlene is a freelance textile designer. Find her work at her website. Or find her on Instagram here. If you’re interested in reading her Master’s thesis, Flocking Together, which she mentions in the episode, it’s available here.
You can listen right here, or find the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, and elsewhere.
Related Episodes:
Episode 435: When Expat Dreams Come True
Episode 435: If You Could Live Anywhere (with Melody Warnick)
Episode 447: Eighteen Years in Rome!
Episode 374: Expat or Immigrant?
Bittersweet Moment #191: The Horror and Misery of a Brand-new Expat
Bittersweet Moment #174: The Challenging First Weeks of Expat Life
Five key takeaways from the episode:
- Darlene moved from New York to Bolzano, Italy in 2019 to pursue a master’s degree, but struggled to adapt to the small mountain town and felt isolated, especially during COVID.
- After 5 years in Bolzano, including a difficult relationship and personal challenges, Darlene recently relocated to Milan, feeling it’s a better fit for her city-loving personality.
- She emphasizes the importance of following one’s intuition when living abroad and not being afraid to make changes if a place doesn’t feel right.
- Darlene discusses the challenges of dating as an expat, including cultural misunderstandings and difficulty being herself in a non-native language.
- She’s currently working remotely as a textile designer and on a European project with natural fibers, while also dealing with visa and citizenship issues due to recent law changes in Italy.
Full Episode Transcript:
Hey, welcome to 2025. Happy New Year. Katy here with a note of what to expect in the coming weeks from The Bittersweet Life. Every Monday, as usual, you’ll find a new episode of the show that’s been the same for the last 10 years. But we’re adding a couple things. Tiffany is going to start making special mini episodes a few times a month with insider tips and secrets when it comes to visiting Rome or Italy. And you’ll find those mini episodes on Wednesdays. And then this show has been on the air for 10 years and there are tons of great episodes in our archives. We’re going to start airing one of those episodes every Friday. I think you’ll find those episodes just as enjoyable as the new ones. So take a listen, let us know what you think and if you can make a monthly or one time contribution to the show, especially if you enjoy listening and perhaps appreciate the lack of interrupting commercial advertising. As you listen, you’ll find links to donate in the show notes or at www.thebittersweetlife.net and if you’ve been listening for the last couple weeks, you know that we are raising money to buy me a new traveling microphone. The microphone I’ve been taking to roam for years is now over a decade old and not sounding so good. I want to thank Jill, JoAnn, Jinny and Stefania for already contributing to that fund. If that tugs on your heartstrings, find the donation button at our website, www.thebittersweetlife.net. And if you don’t have the money, you know another thing that would really help us out in 2025? Tell a friend about the show that means a lot to us or leave us a review wherever you listen. And now on to the show.
Introduction
Welcome to Rome. This Is The Bittersweet Life with Katy Sewall and Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Hello, this Is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewall. Tiffany is away this week, but I am joined by Darlene Sullivan. She has been a guest in some ways several times on this show. The last time she actually appeared as a person talking to me was back in Episode 435, which was titled When Expat Dreams Come True. But Tiffany and I have also done a couple other episodes using letters that you sent in on the show to prompt a discussion about whether or not you should move abroad and if there’s ever a point when it’s too late to make the move. And it was actually a Patreon supporter, Kathryn who wrote in and said she would like to hear from you again to find out what had happened to you. And she remembered that the very first episode, we talked about you thinking about moving to Italy. You know, you were still in Brooklyn, thinking about leaving New York. And then the second time, I think you were. Had just arrived in Bolzano after making the move. And I was looking for that letter, and I found it, and you were writing to us in June of 2020. So when we did the episode in person, you came to Rome and I was in Rome, so we sat down together. Anyway, all this is to say that we want to hear what has happened, where you’ve been and how it’s going. Let’s hear from you a little bit, though. Like, what’s a slight recap? When did you leave New York, and what were you thinking when you left?
Darlene Sullivan
So I arrived in Italy September 6th of 2019, so a couple months before the pandemic broke out in Italy. So perfect moment to move.
Katy
Yeah.
Darlene Sullivan
And I arrived in Bolzano, which is in the north, in the Dolomites, to do a master’s degree in Eco Social Design. So that was kind of the catalyst to get a student visa and get myself settled. But I had wanted to move to Italy for years. I have family there. And so the original letter I wrote was just, you know, it’s been on my mind since I was in my teens, then in my 20s, then I studied abroad. It never really left. Should I do it? Should I not? And then I ended up doing this master’s degree, and I’m a New Yorker, and I ended up in the mountains, living there for five years.
Katy
Wow. I mean.
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah.
Katy
If nobody’s ever been to Bolzano, can you describe, like, what kind of a difference that would be to New York?
Darlene Sullivan
Let’s just say I cried on the train as I was arriving because I just felt so. So insignificant to the size of the mountains. It’s incredible. It’s a beautiful, amazing place that I think anyone should go to for vacation. I just do not Recommend Staying for 5 years, unless you love mountain climbing. I want to make that your life. I have to say, I ended up a little stuck there, which I regret, and we’ll get through that. But it is a wonderfully beautiful place, and I’m happy I did. I moved to Italy, but I’m not so happy that I did it in the way that I did.
Katy
Yeah. It’s not a small town, but compared to New York, it is a small town, you know, and Bolzano, that whole region, and I love visiting that region. I was just there when I was recently in Italy, but it’s kind of almost like a cluster of little towns throughout the whole mountainside. Right. But I also feel like whenever I’m up there, sometimes you don’t encounter English as much as you do in some of the bigger cities. So, I mean, what was your day to day life like there?
Darlene Sullivan
So, yeah, I was doing a master’s degree in design, so I was with other designers. But the town itself, I, I will say, yeah, it’s, it’s not that small, but in, in respect to New York, it was tiny for me. But also something that’s really unique to the region that’s worth mentioning is they speak not only Italian, but also German.
Katy
Yes.
Darlene Sullivan
And when you’re center of Bolzano, you’re speaking mostly speaking German, at least where I was living. So for me, that added some difficulty and challenge to assimilating and just overall making the experience a little strange for me. Or I, I think just kind of doubling down on the outsider feeling because you sit down at a table and you’re not only surrounded by Italian, your second language, but also a third language that you don’t know. And this would happen. And because I, I’m fair skinned and blonde, even though I have some Italian heritage, people would just automatically assume I was German because I was the only American and now there’s more Americans in the town. But I was really within the university community at the time and then just surrounding area, there were no other Americans and no other expats besides German. I mean, predominantly, I can’t say there were no other expats, but within that community it was mostly Germans and other regions of Italy. So every day I would encounter someone speaking German to me and then me having to respond in Italian and then realizing it’s my second language. Why are you not speaking German with me? And then just kind of not expecting me to be American. Yes.
Katy
Why did you get stuck there that long for five years? Was it the university? Was it Covid? Was it just general malaise? What was it for you?
Darlene Sullivan
It was a little bit of everything. So I. It was Covid originally because I was like, oh, I’ll do this student visa, but if I don’t like the program, I’ll move to a big city. Covid hit and I said, I might as well finish this master’s degree and I’m interested in it. I’ll keep going. Worked on a thesis that I’m really proud of. So that, that added to me staying, but actually doing my thesis in Puglia. So that’s another story. But ended up trying to get out at any chance I could. And then different attempts to try to leave, but not feeling like I found the right place. I tried to move to Rome at some point. I think that’s when we had met. I had talked about that I was laid off from my job at the time, the day that I was about to sign a. A contract. So, okay, it might be better for me to turn back and go to Bolzano because it’s a cheaper cost of living. I have some friends there, so that complicated things. So then I was building up my freelance again because I had been working as a director. I work as a designer, I’m a textile designer. And I was working remotely as a director for a company that I had been working for back in New York. So I was lucky that we. We had this relationship. They hired me, but then the company closed, I was laid off, and I found myself. Okay, I guess I’ll go backwards. I’m not gonna move yet. Met someone, started dating, stayed there longer. That that didn’t work out was not the best situation for me. And I’ve recently relocated to Milan as of a week ago, so. So it’s been a roller coaster of events. And I think after the breakup or after that, I was really, this was a couple months ago, really thinking about moving back home and really at a place where I was like, you know, it hasn’t been that great Covid living in a town I didn’t really like and just try. Every single thing I tried to do would not work. There was some bureaucratic issue, some other thing, and I just was like, maybe it’s time to go. But, like, I’m an extremely stubborn person. So I just was like, no, it’s not going to happen yet. I’m not going to let it happen because of the hard period. I’m going to go home when I’m in a good place and I decide to go home. So that was what brought me to my most recent stop, which I’m really happy about.
Katy
I mean, that’s a pretty interesting distinction that you didn’t want to go home because you felt like you were failing. You’d rather go home when you felt like, okay, I got it. I mean, this has been, like you mentioned, a long dream. This has been a dream that you’ve had since about what, 16 years old, that you would one day end up living in Italy. How much of it is the dream that kept you going during all that, where you’re just like, no, it’s supposed to be Great. There’s got to be a way that this is great.
Darlene Sullivan
I think, I think that’s exactly what it was. I was like, no, this is supposed to be great. I’m not going to let it happen. But at the same time I learned, I have to say, I learned a lot. And this is something that I can just offer others is that I learned that, like, I should have followed my intuition in a lot of different places. I’m a city person. I’m never going to be a person who loves the mountains. And when I had that feeling as soon as I arrived, I should have said, hey, this isn’t my place. What’s my next stop? Let me do. But I think on a certain level, because you’re an expat and you’re trying to assimilate and you’re trying that. I kept trying to say, like, I need to make this work. I need to be less close minded. I need to figure out how this is going to work for me. But like, at a certain point you have to say, this isn’t working for me. What does work for me and how can I get there? And I think I kept trying to like rationalize things and say, like, oh, I don’t want to fail at this. I am going to like the mountains. And like, not everyone else like the mountain.
Katy
Well, I guess I could see that the pressure to sort of try something new, I mean that’s, you know, it’s not just the love of Italy. It’s a trying on of a new life. So. Yeah. How do you identify when the trying something new is not just uncomfortable because it’s new and because it’s wrong? That is a very challenging thing. For sure.
Darlene Sullivan
That’s exactly what it was. It’s like, is this wrong or is it just uncomfortable? And I think it took me a long time to realize that it’s okay for this not to be my thing. And what is my thing? You know, And I think also like when you’re in that environment or what I found is that people don’t come from where I come from. And I don’t mean that by the US and New York City. I mean like my personal experiences, what I do for a living, my interest. So, you know, you hear people and they’re like, oh, Milan, oh Rome, it’s terrible there. But you know, it’s like we’re not the same person. We’re not. And you kind of like, at least for me, having so many things be different and having to assimilate to so many different new things. It was hard to distinguish what advice. I feel like at a certain point, I think Covid also just like, broke me down to a point where it was like, who I am, I and what’s going on. It took me a long time to realize that I probably was really affected by being an expat right when Covid hit. And not just that, but I had some other things happen to me that I just felt like. I think I’ve been through trauma and I’m ignoring that. And I’m like, attributing this to failing as an expat or failing at this experience when it was like a lot of other things happening. You know, I ended up. Not to get too personal, but I ended up having a miscarriage with this relationship that I had. And like I said, I was in a German speaking area, so I’m in a hospital by myself in this situation. People are speaking German to me. I speak Italian and English fluently, but for whatever reason, they continue to speak to me in German. They. And, you know, so there were like a lot of things going on to a certain point where I was like, am I failing at being an expat or am I having some serious hard times? And I need to separate those two things and say, I didn’t fail at Italy. A lot of stuff happened, you know.
Katy
Yeah. I mean, have you been able to sort of parse some of that out? You know, how do you define the trauma versus, like, the loneliness or the otherness of being an expat?
Darlene Sullivan
I think it was the culmination of all of it. And then just at a certain point being like, you know what? I need to lift myself up again, find a place where I think I’m going to be the most comfortable, where it’s the most comparable to my lifestyle, and then judge whether that’s working. And the weird thing is I relocated here and I’ve only been here. I’ve been here two weeks actually. And I immediately feel better. And I was like, oh, so this is what I should have done five years ago. Yeah, it was an interesting. It was like coming back into my body, kind of like, okay, like, I’m excited about this. This feels like the right place. And it came together easily. It was like I was looking at apartments and nothing. And I didn’t like the neighborhoods. And I was like, I don’t know. Then I found the neighborhood. I loved it. It just felt right. And then I automatically realized, I know four people in this neighbor. It kind of came about where I didn’t realize where this Appointment was for this apartment. I had a lot of different appointments planned and then realized, oh, I’m getting an appointment in walking distance from three people I know, which is totally random. And then just in a really nice neighborhood that I really like. And it just kind of all came together, and I was like, this is, I think, what I was waiting for, because I kept, like, traveling around and being like, where am I gonna live? What? And I think I kept trying on things that just were not the right size for me, you know, and then just being like, oh, what? I. Okay, I am the obvious cliche, and this is where I want to live. Like, I need to go back to a city. I need to go back to a creative life. And. Yeah, yeah.
Katy
So, I mean, when you say you were going around trying other things on, were you trying out other little towns? I know you considered Rome, but beyond that.
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah, I tried a lot of places. I tried Naples because I have some friends there. I tried Oslo, which is in Veneto, because it’s not too far from my family, and it’s a really pretty town. I mean, I went to Tuscany. I was just really seeking out where I would feel the most comfortable. And at the end of the day, I think it wasn’t just, oh, I need to live in a city, and I need to have a metro. It wasn’t really that. It was also. And this just might be like. I think a lot of people want to move to Italy because they go on vacation, and the vacation. It’s so much fun, and it’s so beautiful, and the food is great, and people want to, like, retire here and all of that, and every. All of that is great. And I think that if that’s what you want to do, that’s amazing. But for me, I felt like everywhere I went, it was just overrun by tourism. And that’s been the last 20 years. I mean, I’ve been coming to Italy my entire life, and I’m in my 40s now, so, I mean, I just feel like it’s. It’s just escalated a lot in the last 10 years, and I just couldn’t. Even in Rome, I was like, I feel overrun by Taurus, and I don’t feel like I want. I don’t want to feel like an expat every day. I want to feel like I live here. And I think that was my choice for Bolzano. That’s why I kind of chose Bolzano, because I said, okay, I’m going to be around people that are not American, and I’m Going to assimilate. And maybe occasionally you do need an American around you. That’s something that I learned as well. I mean, even having this conversation about my experiences, it’s not something that I could have with other people there. You’re in your head a lot. And I had one colleague in my master’s who was also an American, and we became very close, but then she left immediately after finishing. But we had become very close for that reason. I think Milan for me feels less touristy because everyone’s sort of working and doing their thing and just kind of living life. That’s something that was important to me. Like, I wanted to be in a place where I could just live day to day and not feel like I’m the other. And you know, in, in more tourist driven places, you’re spoken to in English constantly. And I’ve. I mean, in Milan everyone speaks English too, but I feel like it’s. It’s not their first inclination to start with you in English. And so I felt like I could just kind of like slide under the radar a little bit more and just live.
Katy
Yeah. I want to ask you, since you said that you felt like in Bolzano, particularly, that you were living in your own head, which I’m sure was also like a Covid thing too. And I mean, that was very much my experience of early expat life was for me, as you know, from listening to the show, I. I didn’t even speak Italian when I moved there because I wasn’t expecting to move there. And so I felt like I spent whole days just thinking my own thoughts and skirting on the margins, you know, and if, if it had been like a cartoon drawing, I would have been shaded in, in gray while the rest of like life was bursting around me and interacting with each other. Now, how do you do when you are in this experience where you have to live in your head so much of the time? I mean, you were so well connected in New York, so it’s kind of basically the opposite experience.
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah, I mean, I think I. I think it. It’s extremely difficult. I think it did take a toll on me because I think I got to a point where I was like, until very recently, I think, I think that was part of my problem is because I was like, I don’t really know who I am and what I’m supposed to be doing right now. Like, I just know how I’m existing day to day here and like, what’s keeping me going. And I think like, you know, I, you know, and I was in this relationship, and I probably wasn’t even that fun to be in a relationship with, to be honest. I mean, there were a lot of other things with this person that was, you know. But I also think that I probably wasn’t my best self either because I’m. I’m just kind of. I didn’t feel. I. You know, there’s this thing that happens, I think, when you’re. When you’re not mother tongue and you’re in a group, even when you speak the language. And this isn’t for everybody, but this was my experience in a group that I just couldn’t be funny and I couldn’t be myself and address every kind of conversation. I could only, like, tunnel into one conversation or another conversation and have, like, little side conversations with the person next to me. And I’m a very animated person and I’m like, I’m funny, damn it, and I can’t be funny. And it was just like, very, very hard for me to, like, have a different. I had to. I feel like I assumed a different personality and I was like, I don’t like me when I’m funny. Yeah, it takes a while. And I feel like now I can, like, make jokes and I can. I mean, I think now I’m a little closer to my regular personality, but it takes so long to get there.
Katy
Yeah. I was just curious. When you were dating over there and you’re in a German slash Italian place, was it a person that spoke Italian at least?
Darlene Sullivan
Oh, yeah, he was an Italian.
Katy
Okay. I’m like, are you forging your way into German as well at this point?
Darlene Sullivan
No, no, he was an Italian, but I mean, that’s a whole other story. I feel like I was loved, bombed into thinking it was the most amazing thing, and then it was just not.
Katy
I mean, I know you speak fluent Italian and we don’t have to delve into it, but was it harder for you to realize? Like, Tiffany and I have done shows about how sometimes when there’s a cultural difference, it’s harder to figure out, like, what’s actually going on. What do you think about that?
Darlene Sullivan
I think that’s definitely the case. I think when I met him, I was being, like, really love bombed and really, like, just really extreme. And I didn’t know that. Like, I just thought, like, oh, this is what happens when you date an Italian. And I think if it happened to me in the US like, the same exact thing, I would have been like, this is a red flag. I should probably pay attention to this and just like certain things that would happen, I, I just chalked it up to cultural differences. Even though I have Italian family, like, I, you know, it’s like I’m not so far from the culture that it’s like, oh, whoa, what is happening here? But still it was really, you know, And I certain point one of my girlfriends said to me, I think this is happening, but you don’t realize it because you’re not Italian. And I was like, you’re probably right. You’re probably right. There’s a much more of a difference that I like, a nuance that I’m not get. Like, there’s something lost in translation. And he was fluent in English as well. So we would go back and forth. Like when we were watching movies or listening to music, we’d mostly speak in English because he was very into like American music and film. But when, like day to day stuff, we’d always speak in Italian. So there was kind of a fluency with both languages and going back and forth. But I still felt like fundamentally there was a lot of disconnect where I would just be like, he probably meant this, you know, and, yeah, certain things just like, sure, yeah.
Katy
So how did you finally figure it out? Was it, was it like the relationship ended and you decided, okay, I’m now I’m moving, or like, was it, you already wanted to move and of course you guys went through this trauma of a miscarriage. But how did it all lay out where you finally say, you know, enough already, I don’t want to be here anymore?
Darlene Sullivan
I think that the relationship wasn’t really working. Like I said, he was really like love bombing me and pretending to be this certain person. And then when things like the miscarriage happened and like serious relationship things where you need a person to actually be there, he was like non existent, you know, so it was like, you know, after that sort of happened, I realized, okay, I’m not really getting the support that I should have been getting. But at the same time, it’s like, I think also when you don’t have your normal friend support group, your baseline normal, like when you don’t have that to like, reference. I mean, I felt like that I was kind of like maybe lingering too long, much longer than I should have. Whereas if I was home, I probably would have been like, I’m not treated the way I should be treated. And like, I would have walked out the door. But I was like, well, you know, like, I mean, it’s probably fine. You know, I just kind of had a lot more excuses that I made for this person. But I always knew that that place wasn’t going to be enough for me. So it was finally just getting up the courage to. Okay, between this place and this not being what it needs to be. I need to make some major changes. And that’s when you contacted me about two months ago. And I was like, this could go either way, so I need to. I need to wait to have this interview. I really was like, I might move home. I might just pack up and. And just go, or I might decide to stay. And I really just sat there for a couple weeks and just was like, what do I feel? And what I thought was, no, this isn’t the end of me. Like I’m saying, you know.
Katy
Yeah, I love that. And how did you figure that out? Journaling? Were you just staring off into the mountains and thought, not these?
Darlene Sullivan
It’s an interesting story because it was a little bit. But first I want to say. I mean, I really just felt like I couldn’t let that be. I felt like I didn’t get the experience. Experience that I came for. I needed to try it in a way that was more familiar to me, AKA a city, something like Milan, something where it’s a little bit more comparable to New York. And I feel like maybe I could have more of an experience that I was expecting. So I said, without that, if I go home, I’m always going to have that. I’m going to have that regret that I had before for not moving. And I definitely, as an advice to anyone out there, move as fast as possible because just don’t wait because it doesn’t get any easier. And I’m not saying it’s ever too late. It doesn’t get too late. But you will feel like you should have done it sooner. Like, that’s my. My only regret is that I didn’t do it sooner, but not that I did it. Even if it didn’t go so well. So many points. I’m still happy that I did it. And I have to say that I just wish I did it differently. But from your question, like, how did I. I was actually a friend of mine from the States came and they wanted to meet in Venice. And I have family not too far from Venice, so I said, okay, let’s do that, and we can go visit my family and we can do a day in Venice. So we did that and they went off to the airport and I had such a great time with them and it was just so nice to be with. I mean, these were old friends. These Were like high school friends. So, so nice to be with familiar people that I didn’t have to try hard. And I even pretended to be a tourist the whole time. I was like, I’m not even going to speak in Italian. Like, let’s just, just do this, speak English and like be tourist. And so I did things that I would have never done in Venice because I’ve been to Venice like maybe 30, 40 times, so I never do tourist things. After two days of being a tourist in Venice, I said, oh my God, I’ve had enough. I just want to go to a really small cafe out of the touristy area and like, journal, just stare at the water. And so I was doing that and I was really. And I said, maybe I should go home because, you know, I just had this amazing time with my friends and you know, maybe, maybe it is time to go home. And I said, I really need a sign that I should move to Milan or something. I need a sign, like a concrete sign. And you know that I hear this person next to me in a voice that I know, and I hear them say a name. I know a girl named Stelli. And I hear this person say, oh, Sally. And I said, oh, that’s interesting. I know it’s silly. And I turn around and it sounded like her now husband’s voice. And I turn around and it’s them. It’s this couple that I know that live in Milan. And they’re sitting next to me in this tiny hole in the wall place in Venice. And they said, we’ve been sitting here deciding if it was you or not. Like we’ve been staring at you. And so we got to talking and they were like, you know what? If you’re looking for a place in Milan, just stay at our place. We’re going to be gone for two months. Stay at our place, find an apartment. We’re going on our honeymoon. Like, just stay there and look for a place. And I was like that. I mean, I just asked my journal and it came to me.
Katy
Yeah. Like instantly. That rarely happens.
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah. And so all of these things just kind of. And then I got this apartment, didn’t know it was near their neighborhood. Ended up I’m a 15 minute walk from their place. And so was just kind of came together. And I said, okay, I’m supposed to stay here. This is what I’m supposed to be doing.
Katy
Yeah. And like you said, it’s early days. You know, you’re recording this sitting in the kitchen, you said, because it’s the only table that’s in the entire. Like you don’t have a desk yet. You don’t have a desk. Yeah, it’s so new. All right, well, before we end, let’s get an outlook in case. Case we’re going to have you come back again later on by popular request, I’m sure. What are you going to be doing in Milan? Do you have a job? What’s the outlook and how long did you rent your apartment for? What’s your current plan in your mind?
Darlene Sullivan
I signed a lease that’s called In Italy, they do contracts for four plus four. So it’s a four year lease, but you have to give six months notice if you leave. This landlord said, I never have a problem renting this apartment. Even if you wanted to leave a month notice, it’s fine. And what am I doing? Someone randomly cut. I’m going to plug in my thesis right here. So I. I worked on a thesis called Flocking Together and it’s stories and struggles of growing a local wool industry. And it’s about local production of wool. And a girl just randomly found my thesis, called me and she and I are working on a European project to work with natural fibers from Liguria. So Geneva is not so far from Milan. So we’re going to be working on this project with natural fibers from the area to make carpets. But I also just work remotely as a textile designer. I have. After I got laid off, I built up my business with clients and I have one Italian client and I’m trying to get some more clients, but I mainly work for US clients. So that’s what I’m still doing here, but hoping to slowly, slowly have more projects in person because I’m really getting tired of doing everything on my computer.
Katy
And your textiles, from what I saw, from what you were doing back in New York, you’re so good at it. Just so great. Is there. I know that that business is no longer there. Can people like look at your work somewhere?
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah. So my website is darleen DeRadesign.com.
Katy
Well, I’ll put a link to your website in the show notes in case you want to look. And I mean, so you have this four year lease, you just got there, so, you know, jury’s out. This is the new chapter. The chapter has been turned. Bolzano is in the past. Do you think you’d ever visit Bolzano again? Or you like, wipe your hands?
Darlene Sullivan
I do really love. I will say I learned to love it more than I ever thought I would. It’s a beautiful place. I recommend anyone Going there for like a week. You know, I. I don’t recommend living there, but I do recommend. It’s funny, I don’t want to, like, go over time, but someone asked me when I first arrived there, what do you miss the most from New York besides your friends and family? And I said, Italian food. Yeah. For me, it’s just like, not Italian. I mean, I grew up with the best Italian food from the south of Italy, right. In New York. So for me, I was like, well, I miss Italian food, but, you know. And everyone looked at me like I was crazy. But I still, I still stand by that statement five years later.
Katy
Yeah.
Darlene Sullivan
Yeah.
Katy
I mean, because it does have like that German influence. It’s like a north. It’s a totally different thing.
Darlene Sullivan
It’s a different cuisine. It has its own. It has its own charm. And I. I won’t say anything bad about Bolzano anymore. It’s just not for me. But if I could give any advice to anyone, it’s find your place that makes you happy and don’t be afraid to. To move on and try something else if it’s not making you happy.
Katy
Yeah. And you went over on a student visa, which is now done. You’ve done your thesis. How are you there? Now?
Darlene Sullivan
That’s another complicated story. But basically, after you study, you’re given one year to find work. And because of the influx of immigration, I was on a waiting list for that one year visa. So I was given an extra year because I finally got my appointment and they said, okay, we’re giving students an extra year. So now I’m on that extra year. But I opened up a partita eva to get like a tax ID to do business here, and so I should be able to stay as a freelancer after this. However, I had the right, and this is probably another episode for you, but I had the right to get a citizenship, if you haven’t done it already. Basically, I have the right to get citizenship through ancestry or residency. However, I dragged my feet on this, had the paperwork for the last five years, was extremely busy with everything we just talked about, decided to do it this year, had some difficulty with some documents, and they changed the law and I am no longer eligible. They changed it on the 3rd of October.
Katy
Oh.
Darlene Sullivan
So I’m in the middle of a process with a lawyer to try to figure out if there’s some loopholes, but they’re making a lot of changes to that citizenship process, as well as just the residency process as well. So right at the time when everyone is trying to exit the States for reasons we don’t need to get into, they’re making it more difficult.
Katy
Was there a particular requirement that knocked you out from contention if you’re great?
Darlene Sullivan
Grant? Because I have a grandfather from Italy, but he was born in Germany and so that kind of blocks that line. Even though he’s Italian, he would roll over in his grave if someone said he was German, basically. And so that I was blocked out of the residency through that side, but the other side was my great grandfather. And because my grandmother was a minor when he naturalized, I am blocked out. Whereas before it was just like if he naturalized after her birth, I would still be in the line. But because she was a minor, they’re changing it to, they must have. They should be over 18 and she was 16. So because of that two year difference, I’m now blocked out. And so, yeah, it’s a huge disappointment. But I also dragged my feet for a long time. If you’ve heard anything, I’m sure you’ve heard a lot and you know from firsthand, the Italian bureaucracy, it’s like when you start the paperwork and you do one thing and then they, you get like rejected so many times that you’re just like, I give up. I’ll try again next year. And that was what I kept doing is I just kept going like, I, I can’t. I can’t do this. Forget. And I. And that’s another advice I want to give. If you need to get anything done, just hire a lawyer. Stop trying to do it yourself.
Katy
Well, at the time, back in 2020, when you wrote, you said that moving was, you know, and you, of course, you were saying, besides the fact that we’re in Covid, besides the fact that, you know, that it was still the best thing that you’d ever done. And you, I wrote it down just so I could quote you back to yourself. You said you weren’t sure how long it would last, but you were grateful for the time.
Darlene Sullivan
Wow. I guess I was having a really good time in 2020 during COVID It got worse before it got better again. No, it’s a, it’s a roller coaster. And I, I can say that I’m still happy I did it. Yeah, it’s a roller coaster, but I’m much happier that I did it than if I hadn’t done it. So. Yeah.
Katy
Oh, well, we will have to check in again and see how it’s going.
Darlene Sullivan
I’m just excited overall to get a good new start and. Yeah, we’ll see where that leads me.
Katy
Yeah, well, keep us posted for sure. Thanks for jumping on. And thanks to Katherine for suggesting that I reach out to you and find out what’s going on.
Darlene Sullivan
And it’s always a pleasure to talk to you, Katy. I really enjoy it. I feel like we could talk for about five hours.
Katy
That’s probably true. I think that’s true. All right, well, we’ll leave it there this time. Thank you so much. And until next time, this is The Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Civil. We’ll talk to you next next week. Bye
Visit Italy before you move there
If you would like to move to Italy one day, be sure to visit it first. And maybe a good starting point is Rome. You have the chance to delve into the secret side of Rome this very year alongside Tiffany and me. This October, from the 5th to the 11th, we will introduce you to Rome’s secret side and tell you amazing stories along the way. Our trip to Rome, The Bittersweet Life trip to Rome is a trip you will never forget. And it might even be the best trip you’ve ever taken. You can find all the details at www.thebittersweetlife.net I hope you join us in Rome for an unforgettable experience.
