Is being stubborn a good thing or a bad thing? Are there benefits as well as dangers of being stubborn?
Tiffany has always considered stubbornness one of her best qualities, but after listening to last week’s expat interview with Darlene Sullivan, now she’s not so sure.
On Episode 568: The Benefits and Dangers of Being Stubborn, Katy and Tiffany discuss their takeaways from the previous episode, and Tiffany shares a story about the time being stubborn definitely did not benefit her.
You can listen to the episode right here, or find the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, and elsewhere.
Related Episodes:
Episode 538: Stayers, Goers, and Newbies
Episode 534: Trying Something New: It’s Supposed to Be Hard
Episode 517: Could You Miss Discovering Your Passion?
Episode 468: Florence, Memories, and A Room with a View
Episode 454: Trying New Things, Opera Edition
Five key takeaways from the episode:
- The hosts discuss the challenges of moving abroad and how to determine if difficulties are due to the adjustment period or if the location is truly not a good fit. 2. Tiffany shares her experience of stubbornly sticking with a toxic graduate school situation, highlighting how stubbornness can be both beneficial and detrimental.Â
- The importance of self-awareness and introspection in making decisions about living abroad or pursuing dreams is emphasized.Â
- The hosts discuss the common experience of feeling lonely and crying in the early months of living in a new country, even when it’s been a long-held dream.
- They mention their upcoming Rome trip in October 2025, offering listeners a chance to explore the city’s secrets and learn about famous architects like Borromini and Bernini.
Full episode transcript:
Katy
Katy here. Support the show by helping us with a vital need that we are facing in 2025. My traveling microphone, the one that has been with us for 10 years, the one that has taken all of us on listening adventures throughout the city of Rome. The microphone that has brought you this sound and this sound and this one. That microphone is on the fritz. We have fixed it more than once and it just doesn’t sound very good anymore. And we need your help to purchase a new one. One that will bring the outside world to life for us once again. And listeners have already donated $275. The microphone costs $296.84. That’s including taxes and shipping. That means we only need to raise another $21.84 to be able to purchase a functional microphone. And we can do that with your help. If you can afford it and you love this show, you can make a one time donation toward this gorgeous new microphone at thebittersweetlife.net or find links to donate in the show. Notes help us raise $171.84 more so that we can get back on the road. You will receive a handwritten thank you note in the mail for your contribution. And trust me, your love of this show and your tips toward keeping it working right are very much appreciated. Onto the show. Welcome to Rome. This is the Bittersweet Life with Katy Sewell and Tiffany Parks. Hello. This is the Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewell.
Tiffany
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Tiffany in Rome, Katy in Seattle. And today we’re doing a follow up on last week’s show with Darlene Sullivan about what happens when you move abroad, heading off finally at last to the dream country you’ve always wanted to live in. And when you get there, well, you know, it’s just not quite as fun or dreamy as you were expecting it to be. What then? What do you do then? We heard Darlene’s first person story with this last week. So you can listen to this show without having heard that one. But I would suggest listening to her episode first and then joining us on this one. But I figured that that episode was one that I recorded with Darlene without Tiffany there. And I thought, well, surely this must have brought up some thoughts when you were listening back, Tiffany, and you were not there to share them along the way. So I thought we could do a follow up of. Yeah, what happens if you follow this lifelong dream? And it kind of sucks, you know, at least initially, hopefully not forever, but maybe forever in some cases. What were some of the ideas that popped into your head when you were first listening to it?
Tiffany
Well, what really struck me was just how hard it is to be able to recognize in the moment whether you’re having a hard time, because being an expat is really hard the first year. I mean, it’s hard. It’s always hard, but it’s really hard the first year. Like, it’s crazy hard the first year, as we’ve talked about. So how do you know? And you yourself said this during the episode. How do you recognize if it’s hard because it’s new or if it’s hard because there’s something that’s wrong that it’s not. It’s not working. And I actually recognized. I kind of identify with her quite a bit during the episode because she says I’m very stubborn. And I am also extremely stubborn. And I’ve always said that being stubborn, to me, is. It’s a positive trait. I think that being stubborn will help you out in life. In some cases, it’ll help you to stick with things. But on the other hand, being stubborn also can be detrimental because you can stick things out when you really shouldn’t. And I know myself. I’ve done it in certain circumstances, particularly in grad school. I was in a really bad situation as far as academically, and I should have been doing something slightly different. And I wouldn’t change. I wouldn’t make any change. I’m like, nope. I started like this. I’m going to keep doing like this. I can see if I had moved to Bolzano or a different town in Italy, and I had had the same sort of experience as her, I can see myself being like, nope, I’m not going to move cities. Nope. Like, that’s admitting failure, you know, which is not. It’s not ideal, because you need to be flexible, too. So it’s like, how do you find. The challenge is finding that spot like that, the happy medium between giving up immediately as soon as something is hard and refusing to listen to yourself and make changes as needed.
Katy
All right, I have. I have two thoughts based on what you just said there. One, before we started taping, you were giving a very minor example of this very thing, which was not that many weeks ago. We did our New Year’s resolution show, and heck, who. You know, we’re not even through the month of January yet. And you’re like, I am going to stick this resolution, which was to take a walk every single morning. And you took a walk on an extremely brisk morning, which, if you’re on Instagram, you saw her doing, and you were like, I should not be out here. It is too cold and I am getting ill. And yet I’m going to do this, because I am not going to fail at this resolution. There is no way I’m not going to do this. And then you’ve been sick ever since.
Tiffany
Yeah, it was two really cold mornings in a row. Like, the first morning that I did it. By the end of that day, I was like, oh, I don’t feel very good. And then the next morning I was like, I’m going out there again. And that was what pushed me over the edge.
Katy
Okay, so. And when it comes to grad school, how big of a clash was this that you were refusing to acknowledge?
Tiffany
Well, I was in music school. Right. So when you’re a classical musician in university or in grad school, you have, like, your studio teacher. If you’re a singer, it’s your voice teacher. So my voice teacher, of course, I had many other teachers who were teaching theory and. And all sorts of different things. She was the voice teacher and she was very, very bad for me. We did not. It was a very. It was a very toxic situation and she. I don’t want to put all the blame on her. There was definitely a lot of stuff going on with me, too. But say she did not help me. She made me worse. And I…
Katy
Singing wise or emotionally?
Tiffany
No, it was sing. It was the singing. It was. Well, it’s all. It’s all wrapped up. Because singing is an internal. It’s so internal, the act of singing that if you are tense in your body and if you are holding on to a lot of tension and a lot of anxiety and things like this, it causes problems in your singing, especially if you’re young and you don’t have a very solid technique. And so I don’t want to go into all of that, but it was the absolute worst fit for me. And I think that if I had been with a teacher who was a little bit more laid back and not so. Like, I can’t even describe how she was. She was like. I hate to say it, but she was kind of like a Nazi. Like, she was just absolutely insane. The way that she treated me, talked to me, put me down, I could go on and on and on and basically forced me to constantly manipulate how I was singing in order to try to sound, quote, unquote, like, how she wanted me to sound. And it totally messed me up. And this could be a whole Other episode, why I stopped singing.
Katy
Well, why did. Yeah, like, let’s write that down as a thing. But why. Why did you stay with her? Was she considered the very best or.
Tiffany
I went to that university for her. I would never. Why would I have gone to Montreal? Like, no offense to Montreal. Montreal’s great. It’s too cold. But it’s, you know, it’s a beautiful city. Yeah. But, like, I would never have gone. Okay. I’m gonna move to Montreal, like, out of that. No, I wanted to study with her. I met her at a music festival when she was in vacation mode. And she was so cool, and she was so, so amazing. And she seemed like this incredible granda. Maggie Smith type vibe. I just looked up to her. I thought she was incredible. And I made up my mind. I’m stubborn. I was like, that’s where I’m going. I’m going to study with her. Wherever she teaches, I’m going to go there. And I went, and she totally destroyed me.
Katy
Okay, well, so it’s interesting because thinking about Darlene’s story, Darlene gets to Italy, and then she also gets hit by Covid. So she gets this kind of like, you know, accomplishes the dream, but then immediately gets kind of punched in the face by a lockdown. When we compare it to your story with this Dame Maggie Smith, teacher from hell, I feel like Darlene pretty early on knew that it wasn’t the right fit for her, but she ends up staying for a long time. Like, how early on do you think you realized I might have made a mistake here?
Tiffany
Pretty early.
Katy
I mean, here’s another question. Could you. Did it even feel like a mistake if you’re that stubborn? Does it not manifest?
Tiffany
No, I think it didn’t feel like a mistake. I feel like there’s. What’s wrong with me? What’s wrong with me that I can’t. That I can’t live up to what I’m supposed to be doing. You know, what’s wrong with my voice? What’s wrong. It was a lot of. A lot of these realizations came after the fact. But at the same time, I knew at the time that something wasn’t right. And I remember I had one of the girls who had been in her studio as well. She was another singer. And she transferred out. She transferred out. She realized this woman is nuts. She’s nuts. So she transferred out. She said, why don’t you change teachers? Why don’t you change teachers? You can do it. It is Allowed. People do it all the time. And I just. I just thought, well, I came here to study with her. Plus, she’ll hate me if I leave her studio. She’ll. You know, she’ll treat me bad. She’ll be. Give me these withering looks that, like, I swear they could freeze you to the bone. And. And also, she spoke English. I do have to say she was from a part of Canada where they speak English, but not all of the teachers spoke English. And the idea of having my lessons in French, in French Canadian, which is even harder than French, that was a little daunting, I do have to admit.
Katy
Huh. And so how long did you stick it out with this particular person? How many years are we talking?
Tiffany
It was supposed to be two years, but I. It took me longer to graduate because. Because my. I got into all sorts of voice problems. Like, my voice. Like, I would lose my voice. I kept losing my voice because I was singing in an incorrect way, and I was forcing myself, and I was over practicing. I was practicing all, like, hours and hours and hours on end. You can’t practice that long as a singer. It’s bad for you. And so I got to the point where, like, I couldn’t do. Give my final recital because I didn’t have a voice. And I just kept having to push it off and push it off and, oh, my God, it was so traumatic. Like, this is. This is honestly one of the traumatic events of my life. I don’t talk about it very much, but I. Eventually what I did was I went back to Boston and I. I took, like, a semester off from school. I was done with all of my courses. Like, all my credits were done. I just had to give my final recital. So I went back to Boston and I found a teacher at my old conservatory who was not the teacher I had studied with in undergrad, but she was someone else who was wonderful. And I studied with her. She helped me prepare the songs that I’d already prepared. But, you know, she helped me get back on track. And I went back. I gave my final recital. I did not see the teacher. I was like, I can’t. Like, she’s like, do you want to come and have a lesson? I was like, no, I’m sorry, I don’t. She was there at the recital because she had. She was the head of the voice department, so she was one of the people judging me. And I passed. But it was very traumatic. Very, very traumatic.
Katy
Traumatic because you almost didn’t get out or because. Why?
Tiffany
The whole situation. The whole situation, you know, I mean, there’s so much involved there. I mean the identity, you know, when you, when you pursue something so, so single mindedly like I pursued opera, it becomes a part of your identity. And when all of a sudden that comes into question because you, you, your voice no longer works or you can’t sing the way that you used to sing, or there’s some kind of major problem going on that’s, it’s just traumatic. It’s like a dancer who can’t walk anymore. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s that kind of thing and calls into question your future, all, everything you’ve worked for up until that point. What you’re going to do, you know, what, you know, what you spent, slash wasted your life on. It’s just, it’s a lot and, and just. Yeah, she was really, I don’t, you know, abusive is a strong word, but I almost feel like that is apt when I think back on it and.
Katy
Did you just walk away? Do you know what happened to this woman after that? Was it just, you know, I pretty much walked away.
Tiffany
Yeah, I see. I didn’t have any more contact with her. I was not interested in that.
Katy
Do you think she’s listening to this podcast right now?
Tiffany
No, I don’t, I don’t. She might not be alive anymore. I have to look it up. But I don’t want to be dramatic and everyone is the master of their own life, you know, everyone is the. Everyone decides what. I don’t, I don’t believe in blaming other people for your own life choices. However, she’s a huge part of why I no longer pursued operas. I mean, I did sort of half heartedly pursue it after I finished grad school, but it would really. She just soured the whole experience for me and I just not just emotionally but, but physically. Like I, you know, I feel like I was, I could have gotten out of it, you know, I could have probably found a really great teacher and done some like major voice therapy and stuff like that, but I just lost the passion for it and the love for it somehow.
Katy
I mean, that makes sense if you have a terrible person. If you had had an encouraging person who had actually made you better, it could have been so different.
Tiffany
I know. And I could have, I could have. I mean, that’s what this conversation really started about out to be about. If I had just been a little bit less stubborn and I, I started out saying I think stubbornness is equality, but it’s really double edged sword because I think if I had not been so stubborn, things could have gone differently. And I think. I think probably I shouldn’t have even stayed there. I should have just left. I didn’t like living there. I didn’t like the city. It was too cold. People were unfriendly. I felt very isolated. The entire time I lived there, I felt like French Canadian people were not interested in having any kind of a relationship with me. Like the kids at school. Like, the only people who gave me, who ever talked to me were either Canadians from other parts of Canada. No offense to French Canadians, but I’m sorry, I mean, I’m particularly talking about Quebecois people. There are other parts of Canada where they speak French, and that’s not. Not included. The Quebecois people were not interested in talking to me or knowing me. So it was just the other Canadians or Europeans. And maybe there were one or two Americans. I don’t actually. I don’t think there were any Americans there. But yeah, I just felt extremely isolated. Very isolated. And. And 911 happened when I was living up there. And it was. It was weird, the reaction of people.
Katy
Shrugs, shrugs like, oh, they had it coming, or kind of.
Tiffany
I mean, they wouldn’t say those words. But I just remember being at school that day because it happened at around 9:00am, 9:30, I think, in the morning. And I hadn’t left the house yet. And I went into school because I was, you know, kind of needed to, like, have some kind of human contact. And somebody looked at me and, what’s, what’s wrong? And I was like, you know, kind of in half. In tears. And I said, well, did you see what happened? And they’re like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that kind of like that was the. That was the reaction of so many people. So many people.
Katy
Katy, popping in real quick to take you on a little journey for a moment back to when Tiffany and I were exploring the streets of Rome. Take a listen.
Tiffany
So Piazza Navona is. Yeah, I know you’ve been here before, Katy, but is there even a word? It’s a spectacle. It’s spectacular.
Katy
It really is.
Tiffany
Oh, look, Katy, it’s noon on the dot right now, as you can hear the bells from Santa Nieze in Agone now, it’s kind of hard to know where to look first in this piazza because there’s so much going on and there’s so many beautiful things. Probably what’s going to take your attention the most is the central fountain. This is by Bernini. Gianlorenzo Bernini, the famous sculptor and Architect. There’s actually a great story behind this fountain, because the pope at the time, Pope Innocent X, came on the heels of Pope Urban viii. And Urban VIII had been not only Bernini’s patron and champion, but also a close friend of his. So he had gotten all the amazing projects and commissions all throughout Urban VIII’s papacy, and he was just the favorite artist of the whole city. And when Innocent took over, he had been a rival of the previous pope. And so he didn’t want to work with anyone that that pope had worked with. And so Bernini suddenly was out of fashion, and he instead was working with a couple of different architects, including Francesco Borromini, who’s my personal favorite architect, and he was the great rival of Bernini. So suddenly, finally, Borromini gets to shine. And in fact, the central church that you can see here, this towering, gorgeous Baroque church, is by Francesco Borromini. But Pope Innocent decided he wanted to build a monumental fountain. Now, he sent out not exactly commissions, but he sent out notices to the great artists of the time to submit their ideas and their designs for the new fountain, and he was going to select which one he preferred. He, on purpose, did not invite Bernini to submit his ideas, but there was a family member of his who knew what was going on, who loved Bernini’s work. So he convinced Bernini to make a model of the fountain anyway, and they put it in a place in the palace where the Pope would not be able to miss it. And so when Pope Innocent saw a model of what Bernini had projected for this fountain, he was completely gobsmacked by it. He fell instantly in love with it. And he was quoted by a contemporary historian as having said, he who desires not to use Bernini’s designs must take care not to see them.
Katy
We have had so much fun exploring this historic city. So many wonderful stories, so many beautiful and thrilling sights to see, and we’ve made so many discoveries together. Now imagine being on the streets of Rome with us making those discoveries for yourself as we show you some of Rome’s most delightful secrets. You see them with your own eyes. You smell the smells. We’re leading A week in Rome this October 2025, from the 5th to the 11th. A small group of adventurous and curious listeners. And you could be one of them. Find out more information at thebittersweetlife.net or email us for the details at bittersweetlifepodcast@gmail.com. Now back to the show. It kind of brings up another question I had written down when we talked about maybe Doing another episode on this was, I guess, something that Darlene sort of scratches at too is. And a thought that I definitely had when I was in college because I didn’t particularly like the college I chose either. But it was the question was I or am I in the wrong place or am I in the wrong mindset? And that is so hard to parse apart, you know, And I think that that’s what the question she was asking, like, what am I? And exactly what you’re saying, what am I doing wrong? How did this all happen? And I don’t know how you get those two things separated. You know, how you determine, like, this is the wrong place for me versus I’m just not in the game right now, you know, or something like I’m. Yeah, I’m not living up to the potential of this moment, which was a thought I’d had many times, endless amounts of times in the year I was living in Rome. And I think I did Rome pretty well in that year. But I had plenty of time where I was just like, I am not living up to this moment. This is all of my limitations, all of my hang ups, all of my weaknesses, all of my inability to speak the language are all. Are front and center in this, constantly in a rotation. But I don’t know how you divide out the wrong place versus the wrong way of thinking.
Tiffany
I think in order to do that, you have to just know yourself so well. And that takes, you know, first of all, it often takes being older. It’s hard to do that when you’re 18. It’s hard to know yourself that well because you just, you haven’t, you haven’t known yourself long enough. You’ve only been around 18 years. Yeah, but. But I think that there are things that we can do to know ourselves better. You know, journaling, I think, is a wonderful tool for that and taking time to be introspective and not constantly be entertaining yourself and stop sometimes and look around and take walks and. But I think in order to do that, you really have to, you know, you have to be very self aware. And not everyone is. And it’s not easy to be.
Katy
Yeah, sometimes it’s painful to be.
Tiffany
Yeah.
Katy
You know, but it’s almost like now you can be have like this stubborn Tiffany of today with the outside person that could be like, hey, Tiffany, remember that time when the sub. I’m pretending I have a puppet in my hand right now. For those of you who can’t say, hey, Tiffany, remember that time when you were so stubborn in Grad school and you, you know, maybe don’t go for a walk this morning.
Tiffany
I mean, but yet I didn’t even.
Katy
Stubbornness is a dominant quality for you still.
Tiffany
It really is. Well, I mean, again, I. I remember my first year in Rome and I remember being on the phone with my mom sitting in a. On a bench somewhere in Trastevere. I think I was in Piazza Sonino, like, you know, right there at the sort of the first tram stop over the river. And I was sitting on a bench and I was cr. I was. I couldn’t help crying. You know, there wasn’t necessarily one specific thing I was crying about. I was just crying because I was so. So lonely and so confused and unsure and at sea in all sorts of different ways. And she just said, why don’t you just come home? And I was just like, do you even know me? How is that something I would ever consider? Just come home after two or three months, tail between my legs, oh, it didn’t work out. That’s not even like an option. It is not even close to being an option.
Katy
Is it not an option for you or is it not an option because we, Your friends threw you a going away party or something and you’re like, well, I can’t come back three months later. They threw me a going away party. Like, how embarrassing is that?
Tiffany
It’s me. And I mean, man, I think part of that was it really had only been a few months like, that. I can see myself after four years, if I was still really miserable, like, being like, okay, this didn’t work out. I would like to think that after four years I would. I would be able to make that call. But after a few months, I mean, I just. That’s just not me. It’s just not. I’m. You know, I stick things out, as we’ve proven.
Katy
Yeah, yeah. And I know we’ve talked on this show before, it’s not uncommon to cry in those early months, which is so counter to what we think it would be like, you know, when you finally make it to a new experience, you know, and maybe that’s where the tears come from, is that you think, like, okay, I’m on this big new experience. I’ve been dreaming of Italy my whole life, and now you’re miserable, and that’s why it feels like you have to cry. I think I’ve told you before that there is one particular church that’s along the Tiber river, that, that every time I walk by it now, a decade later, from when I first was Living in Rome, the first thing I think about when I see that church is me sitting in its side chapel, crying. My first month living in Rome and feeling like, why do I feel so lost when I have such an amazing opportunity? You know? And obviously that church stands for so much more, but that’s my first association with that particular place.
Tiffany
What church was it? I’m just curious.
Katy
I don’t. I don’t actually remember the name of it, to be honest. It’s. Maybe, you know the name of it. It’s. I’ll cut this. But as you’re walking to the Vatican.
Tiffany
And, you know, on the trust, every side.
Katy
On the trust, every side.
Tiffany
Oh, I think that’s San Giuseppe de Fiorentini, that church, if you want to put this back in.
Katy
Side note, she just said that because I gave her a long description about where it is that I cut off for all of you people. That’s the power of editing, which makes this all feel like it doesn’t quite make sense. She didn’t just know that out of the blue, as if she looked at me and she said, you know which church it is?
Tiffany
Yeah, it’s San Giovanni de Fiorentini. And that church happens to be where Francesco Borromini is buried. Oh, well, favorite architect. I mean, I say our favorite architect. I assume he’s your favorite architect, too. He must be, right?
Katy
He is. Now, after I’ve been on the Rome, the Bittersweet Life Roman Adventure so many times. Yes. He is a marvel, to be sure. Yes. Well, that’s interesting to know.
Tiffany
I mean, he had a very sad life. You know, he was. He was depressed. He committed suicide. Not that I’m, you know, putting you guys in the same. Same boat there, but maybe his melancholy was. Was. Was affecting you, was influencing you from beyond the grave.
Katy
It drew me to that church when I was feeling that sad, sad moment. You know, another weird association I have with that church is one time, maybe it was just the place where I went to sit and feel lonely. But one time, I was sitting on the steps of that church, and a pigeon flew up and landed on the ledge, and it had a string attached to its leg, as so often and so sadly happens to pigeons, where they get caught up in the trash on our streets. And on that string was caught another pigeon. And so when it landed on the ledge, another pigeon was dangling upside down from the string. And luckily, luckily, I had just happened to go to a store and picked up a lighter so that we could, like, light candles and incense and stuff. And I had the lighter in my pocket, and I was just like, well, how can I possibly help this bird? Because they weren’t going to let me. Anytime I got close to them, they were both like, you know. And I sparked the lighter and I burned string in the middle, and the poor pigeon that’s hanging upside down just crashed to the ground. So no fun for him. But then he was like, oh, okay. Well, now we’re walking around. Both of us have too long of a string now attached to our legs, but at least we’re not hooked together. So I do think of that with that church as well.
Tiffany
That is. That’s a pretty cool story. Yeah. One of the best pigeon stories I’ve ever heard.
Katy
One of the best pigeon stories you’ve ever heard. Well.
Tiffany
Well, I haven’t heard that many good pigeon stories. I’ve heard a lot of crow stories.
Katy
But we had some pretty good pigeon stories around that crow episode we did back in episode 51. So you could dig around episode 51 and find some decent pigeon stories. But thank you. I’m glad that was a good pigeon story. All right, so, one.
Tiffany
I mean, it’s just so odd. I’m just trying to, like, visually imagine a pigeon sitting on a ledge of a church with a string hanging off its foot and another pigeon just dangling upside down. It’s just a great. It’s a great visual.
Katy
Flapping, of course, trying, you know, so it’s not hanging upside down. All right, well, one final question before we’ll end this particular discussion. I mean, I know that your first months were not just lonely. You also were living in kind of a bad situation. When you first arrived, you were living with relatives. And I think that that was always meant to be temporary. But you sort of have the same problem that Darlene has, where when you land, you land in the wrong place. And I don’t know, is there anything you related to in that about how did you figure out to, like, extract yourself from the bad place for yourself?
Tiffany
Well, that was definitely meant to be temporary. That was just like, you know, if I hadn’t had a place to land, I would have had to stay, you know, as you guys did, in a temporary apartment. It would have. I would have spent way more money than I had to spend. So I was very lucky that I had people that I could stay with. It just turned out that it was. It was not a good situation either. We won’t go into that. But I. I never meant to live with them because even if they had been wonderful and just the most amazing people in the world, they lived way too far out of center. I wanted to be in the center. Of course, all new expats should be in the center. It’s one thing to move out to the outskirts when you’re, you know, you’ve been in the city for over 10 years and you have a kid and, and day job and a commute and all that boring stuff. But when you’re new, you have got to live in the center because that is why you’re there. You’re not there to live out in the suburbs.
Katy
Yes. You’re there to be part of the…
Tiffany
Culture, the beating heart of the city. So there was no way I was going to live out there. I mean, they are even further out than I am now. So, no. So I immediately was planning to move into the city, and it took two weeks. It took me a good two weeks to find a place, which, looking back, is not that bad.
Katy
No.
Tiffany
Because finding other apartments took me much, much longer. But, yeah, you know, the fact that it didn’t. That I wasn’t happy with them, it had no bearing on whether I moved. I would have moved out no matter what. So.
Katy
Okay. All right. Well, I do think that again, in the idea of knowing yourself that, you know, one of Darlene’s very wise conclusions was, I am not a country person. I am a city person, not a country mouse. A city mouse. And I think that’s also was an interesting distinction she pointed out was, you know, it might be wrong also because it’s not the kind of environment you like to live in. You might have picked the wrong city, which I also think is kind of an interesting thing to think about when you move abroad.
Tiffany
It is interesting.
Katy
All right, well, we’ll leave it there for now. Thank you so much for supporting the show. If you have thoughts on this topic, feel free to send us an email. Bittersweetlifepodcastmail.com and thinking about moving to Rome. Why not explore it first with us on our Rome trip, our Roman adventure. This October, we’re going to be in Rome from the 5th to the 11th. We’re only offering eight rooms for this exclusive tour. We’re going to be showing you all the secret sides of Rome. And if you want to know more about this Borromini character. Oh, will you? If you come with us on the secret tour of Rome. Borromini is the name of an architect, not to be confused with Bernini, also the name of an architect. You’ll get to know both of them so well, you’ll be able to make jokes about them by the end of the week.
Tiffany
Like one of our guests our first year, who I don’t think had ever heard. Well, he definitely had never heard of Borromini. Maybe he’d heard passing of Bernini by the end of the week. He was making jokes about those, too.
Katy
And funny ones also.
Tiffany
Yeah.
Katy
Which, you know, I, I really enjoy. So, yes, you can find information about the trip at our website, thebittersweetlife.net or you can always email us bittersweetlifepodcastmail.com with all of your questions and queries. Tiffany and I are here to help you decide if you want to come with us to Rome this October. Don’t be shy. We’re here and ready to go teach you about Borromini and Bernini so that you never confuse them in your head again. All right, we’ll leave it there. And until next time, this is the Bittersweet Life. I’m Katy Sewell.
Tiffany
I’m Tiffany Parks.
Katy
Join us again. Bye. We welcome your feedback, show topic, ideas or questions. You can always reach the show by emailing bittersweetlifepodcastmail.com or through thebittersweetlife.net.
